Eliminating super squeaky floors from above?
We finally have a chance to deal with a tenants super squeaky floor. It’s an old original pine plank floor over an old plank subfloor and it squeaks TERRIBLY. Like it will wake you up if someone walks in the room above.
When we had the chance years ago and were working underneath we ran resilient channel and added sound insulation between the joists. But this squeak is still terrible so now we will attack it from the top.
New carpeting and padding will be going down so we don’t care about damaging or aesthetics of the wood floor and are open to whatever it takes to get rid of the squeaking- it’s that bad.
Of course we’ll try screwing down boards, though this can be tricky over areas with no joist below.
One idea was to lay a layer of plywood over everything but I’m not sure what the best approach.
Also open to flooring guy recs if you have someone who has successful fixed this before.
Thanks for any advice, I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s dealt with this.
stickerhappy
in General Discussion 2 years and 4 months ago
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38 replies
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
If i thought you were nuts i would not have entertained you this long. Besides, you offered to pay me and in truth when people offer to pay me to do something and i won’t or can’t but know how, i recognize their sincerity and try to help.
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
Yeah believe me- I may be obsessive on some things but I’m not being crazy on this one 🙂
But I could see how this whole post sounds like I could be a little nuts.
I appreciate you vouching for me, Steve!
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
Bob, there are people who make big deals out of little things and those people can be impossible for contractors to deal with, especially in these old houses. But i have spoken to this man at length and he has texted me since. Something tells me he is realistic and this must be real bad squeaks on floors that were not the best to begin with. If i had the time i could probably fix this and make him happy. Just for fun now, i am contemplating visiting him and if he is trying to either fix something impossible or not worth it, i would tell him so. I wish i were working near his house.
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
Yeah I totally agree and there are lots of squeaks we’ve accepted as normal but this particular area is REALLY bad and right above our bedroom,
That’s why I’m spending the time to try to do it right since we plan to be here for a long time.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 2 years and 3 months ago
So much fuss—squeaky floors are just part of old house living. Of course this is easy for me, since I don’t have a tenant
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
it really does not have to move, visibly.
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
The floor actually isn’t in bad shape- it looks pretty good in fact and doesn’t appear to move while walked on- this is why we’re surprised it still squeaks.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
and what is the condition of that floor anyway? is it poor? i suspect it is because it had been painted. you can try doing this but it will cause further degradation of the floor: where you think squeaks are, screw some #12 screws between the boards. this will tighten them up and might eliminate the squeaks. if that works, mark the spots, take the screws out, and when you lay overlay on the floor, be sure to remove more paint in those areas so the pl product adheres well and be a little more generous with the pl in those areas.
i am worried if you try the talc it might not make its way far enough into the wood.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
The boards can rub a little between each other. This is what you do. Try to spray some talcum powder between those boards you suspect. Start with small areas. Mark the test good or bad. And test more.
The talc will lubricate.between the boards. This will not work if the noise is on the joists. If you find this is from movement between boards, revert back to overlay with pl400/premium but i would quickly run a belt sander across that floor to remove paint with extra emphasis on areas around and where the squeaks are.
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
Yes that’s what we did- there were still squeaks happening on what looked like solid secured boards from above.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
i am not sure what to say. you kind of have to have someone walk around up top while communicating with someone below.
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
Well the carpet got pulled up and the pine floor was painted but mostly in decent shape.
We screwed down every single board to the joist and while it seems quieter on top, it still is fairly squeaky from the apartment underneath.
It’s just hard to pin it down because you don’t really hear squeaky boards when walking on top.
Any suggestions given this new info?
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
Yes- Steve generously spoke with me for over a half hour about exactly what to do and how to prep it and what materials to use and answered a lot of my questions about how to do this right. I got one shot to get it right so want to feel prepared.
So a big thank you to Steve and to all others who chimed in with advice!
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
Others following this:
OP called me yesterday and asked me if he could hire me to do this small job. i told him i would rather tell him what he has to know to do this himself.
this came out during the conversation:
someone had mentioned to OP that there is a “foam” that can be put under wood do deaden sound. That sounded to me like “green glue” product that has been mentioned before on this board. To use that on the current assembly, the floor would have to be taken up. I explained this to OP instead:
“the PL400 that i am referring to is an adhesive that does not harden like epoxy or glue that we would use in fine wood work. it is construction adhesive that maintains a bit of give. Because this dries like a hard rubber, if this is used sufficiently between the new underlay and the old floor, it will probably offer some sound deadening properties”.
also, i reiterated this: PL400 is gap filling (it is thick like catsup when wet). if it is put in gaps between a floor and an uneven underlayment, it will fill gaps unless it is pressed out. It will act like the shims when hard. the object is when using this, not to walk the top surface and press it out where it is needed, but to walk the top surface to level it and hold it down where needed with screws at least until it hardens. Use screws driven fully down where the two pieces of wood make contact.
what i have just said above about sound transfer comes from my experience using the product, not from living under a floor where this has been used.
part of my new home inspection business is offering “maintenance” inspections with consultation for people wishing to learn a little about DIY possibilities. During an extended home inspection (these cost more than buyer’s inspections and last twice as long), i would gladly discuss something like this for an hour with a client. I have told OP that if i find myself doing a home inspection in his area, i will probably find my way to his house to give him some pro bono advice on that floor. I am too busy working on doors though to drive around the city charging people to consult on small projects or giving out free advice. I wish i had the time to talk to people like that, over a cup of tea or a beer.
Steve
brownstonehomeinspection.com
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
Op, i know you don’t want to lay thick sub flooring over the old floor. If this were me, i would want 1/4″.
First, refer to it as underlayment. As you go to pick this stuff up from wherever, if you call it subfloor people start thinking 3/4″. Its underlayment.
We know 1/4″ sub floor will deflect more. If i wanted 1/4 (let’s pretend a customer were willing to pay me a fair bit of money to do this right and guarantee it and they said only 1/4″ will work), this is what i would do:
I would mark the sqeaky spots. I would also lay a straight edge on the floor and on my hands and knees drag it along and mark the low spots. I would then sand the floor finish off the squeaky spots and low spots.
I would use pl400 generously on the low and squeaky spots. I might put additional lines of pl between every other joist.
I would lay the wood. Now. You can get underlayment screws and because i am a woodworker, i am a big fan of screws. But you need screws that will pull down and set without pulling through the subfloor. DO NOT USE DRYWALL SCREWS ON A FLOOR . You can also narrow crown staples over the joists. Use coated so they don’t pull out.
You do not have to set the screws too tight over the low spots. Maybe just enough to spread the adhesive and level the floor out. If you don’t sink the screw heads into the wood over the blobs of pl in tge low or sqeuaky spots because you don’t want to make the subfloor – oops, underlayment – uneven, leave the heads loose and let the pl harden for two days and pull the screws out. If you use sq drive screws for those you will remove, they will come out easier than phillips.
You can add pl premium in random places or over joists. The premium will adhere better to old varnish (pl400 won’t). The more adhesive you add with the 1/4 ply, the tighter this will get and if you do not get a squeaky spot 100%, the combination of all of this will tighten the underlayment up so much, deflection will be minimal.
This sounds like a lot and it sounds like overkill. But if some professional level customer came along or someone on this board asked me to do this and wanted to pay for 1/4″ and i did not want to risk them complaining on this board about me, this is what i would do. I guarantee it will work.
When we go into something like this we are less certain about (if i walked that floor, i would know how much adhesive and how many screws) we always have twice as many fasteners and twice as much adhesive than we think we will need on hand. No running to hd after putting adhesive out.
Btw, decades ago i used to lay underlayment on non squeaky floors and all we did was use coated crown staples. No screws, no adhesive.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
3/4 is only really needed when spanning joists. This is already over a subfloor. Shimming is easy to do where seams/edges are because you see the gap and can set the shim to it. That is very hard to do under sheet product. . If you use pl400, it is thick like peanut butter. So you can put less where you suspect there are smaller gaps and more where there are bigger gaps. As you walk on it and screw the wood down the pl will squeeze and level out. Don’t use pl premium. Its too thin. Don’t use pl200, its not water proof. I would plan on using 5 tubes in a 10×12 room for gap filling high and low spots or putting between old squeaking boards.
stickerhappy | 2 years and 3 months ago
Yes we will screw down the existing boards for sure.
nyc_sport | 2 years and 3 months ago
Plywood subflooring typically is 3/4″ or more thickness, and tongue and groove. It is usually glued with a foam glue, and screwed directly into the joists (or, in your case, through the old floor into the joists). You need to plan for what that added height will mean for mating with other floor surfaces. If the squeeks are resulting from loosened boards, shrinkage and/compromised nails (and the boards are otherwise in good shape and will be covered), you may be able to fix it by screwing down the pine boards and shimming gaps.
cate | 2 years and 3 months ago
It’s possible laying down wall to wall carpet with a thick pad might help somewhat, as might laying down plywood and Marmoleum or perhaps some other covering. FWIW, we have Marmoleum in a couple kitchens and don’t experience much if any squeaks in there, and less noise from below. Also FWIW, while our subfloor squeaks a lot, it cannot be heard from below. What can be heard from below is an echo of feet striking the floor that reverberates through the joists. The solution to that is a rug with a thick pad underneath, walking lightly and seldom, and avoiding walking over people’s heads while they are sleeping.