Electrified Cast Iron Radiators!?! Anyone have any experience with these?

Our situation is almost identical to Bored’s, both in terms of the size of the house and our gas bill. We too use space heaters to compensate for imbalances. This also helps because my partner works at home and we only heat the entire house in the morning and evening. The thermostat switches our central heating off over night and during the day. We have been considering adding gas fires (the Valor Portrait President) in two rooms — our front parlor and the study — to create some zoning. If you are considering central AC, the ductless mini-splits can be used for additional winter heat (but most posters here say they cannot provide ALL the heat you need). Adding supplemental heat to a room is probably the best way to go. I would worry that your plan will result in an over-zoned house. A steady, constant temperature throughout — even in rooms you don’t use much — is preferable to keeping some rooms cold. If you do the latter, you’ll end up over-heating the rooms you use because of cold spots around the house. At the end of the day, hot water radiators create a wonderful ly cosy house. I would never get rid of our gas-fired rads! And never under-estimate the quality-of-life benefit of high quality, draft-free windows.

> @jhcovert
> I don’t think baseboard heat is as good a way to go since the thermal mass of the units are not nearly as high as the old radiators – the cast iron should hold the heat for a much longer time than the thin aluminum fins of baseboard heaters, and the rads should not dry out the space the way traditional electric heat often does. Also, if they are wired like baseboard, shouldn’t they draw like baseboard?

I have no science or engineering background, so I may be completely wrong here, but it seems to me that the thermal mass issue cuts both ways. Yes, the rads will hold heat longer than baseboard heaters, but it will also take significantly more energy to heat the rads to a point where they can effectively heat your home than it would to heat baseboard heaters. Net/Net I do not know how this calculation would shake out, but my guess is that it’s a wash.

The solar array you mention does seem quite large, and perhaps that would cover your electric heating costs, but the amount of energy required to heat rads via electricity versus through a steam boiler syste m seems so high that it’s not clear to me you would cover the difference. Gas in NYC is extremely cheap and electricity from the grid is extremely expensive. FWIW, I have a very old, very inefficient gas-fed steam boiler and the cost to heat my house in winter (plus stove and dryer) is ~$350/month for 3000 sq. ft. 1 zone.

You also mention that this solution will have benefits vis a vis insurance companies because you will not have a water-based system. Keep in mind, however, that a traditional system is steam-based, not water-based, so while there is water (vapor) traveling throughout your home, it is not as much liquid volume as you might imagine. Conversely, with this electric system you are pumping 100 year old cast iron radiators full of liquid oil. The damage that could be caused to your house were one or more of these to leak seems extraordinary.

@boredatwork – your situation is exactly as ours is going to be. Thank you for this. ANYTHING else you want to tell me about what your experiences have been like would be deeply appreciated. Anything!

The only downside to this arrangement for us that I can see is that my wife constantly sneaks to the thermostat and raises it to 78 or higher when I’m not looking. And then she’s shocked that our heating bill is outrageous in the winter! We “joke” about it all the time.

Yes, but only slightly, and just on the coldest days of winter. We made the mistake of removing (for aesthetic reasons) one large cast iron radiator from the rear parlor level of the house. The thermostat is also nearby in the hall on the wall. So in order to get the parlor to 68, the furnace cranks out enough heat so that the top floor is sometimes 74. This is exacerbated by the chimney effect of the stairway. So, on the coldest days, we turn on a small electric space heater to get the rear of the parlor to a reasonable temperature, “tricking” the thermostat. This allows the upper floors to remain comfortable and not get too hot.

By the way, we are also garden rental over owner’s triplex. They pay cooking gas and hot water, but we pay for heat for the whole house. One zone for four living floors.

@bored_at_work – that is immensely helpful. And that’s a pretty attractive number! Do you find that having a single zone is uncomfortable at all?

I can only give my real world experience with natural gas and old school hot water radiators. for heating a 3200 sq ft house with a south exposure for the garden. We installed a new “high efficiency” furnace about 15 years ago. We also installed new double-hung, double pane windows several years ago. We also have a gas cooktop, oven, drier, hot water heater (old style) and outdoor grill. We keep the house, which is one zone for heat, at about 68 in the winter. For this, we pay $107 per month through level billing, or $1284/year.

Great to hear!

Just fair warning tho — for the first six months you WILL find yourself going down to your ConEd meter just to watch it run backwards LOL

That’s amazing and great to hear! That’s who we’re planning on working with, and they’ve been a joy far. Just got our estimates in. We were considering a 30 panel, 13,000 kWh system.

We have a 4,500 watt system with 4,928 kWh guaranteed year one. 14 panels — think we could have squeezed one more panel in but can’t remember. It’s been over a year now.

We have hit the numbers and we love having solar, it’s just ridiculously awesome. FWIW we bought rather than leased and used Brooklyn SolarWorks and can’t recommend them highly enough. They made it so easy it was only a little more work on our end than ordering a pizza. Our inverter went slightly wonky and they noticed and had someone out before we even noticed.

@booisgolden – good point! What size array do you have and are you getting the generation you were promised?

To OP, we have solar and the points made above by Lurker about the limitations are valid. Unless you ave an uncharacteristically large rooftop and hence a super large array, you can’t just burn electric like crazy and expect to have no or a tiny bill.

@Lurker – YES! This is getting to the heart of the matter.

Are you running hydronic? Did you zone? I’m having a hell of a time comparing costs – I haven’t found a lot of people that can confidently hydronically zone a big home (it’s a lot of PEX and pumps and mechanical accuators, which scares the bejesus out of me from an install cost and maintenance standpoint).

As far as solar is concerned: my understanding is that if you over-produce in the summer you get credits from the utility that translate to money off your bill in the winter. The solar installer we are considering guarantees 95% energy production annually, otherwise THEY pay the difference.

What I’ve found most frustrating with this radiator company, though, is that being a French Canadian company, we don’t speak a mutual language well enough to have a constructive dialogue (I don’t speak French, and the don’t speak much English), so it’s like pulling teeth and there have been a frustrating number of misunderstandings already.

Between the potential electrical upgrades, and the electrical draw of running this thing throughout the year (not to mention this forum’s somewhat surprising animosity for even considering it) I’m starting to think I should let it go.

@Putnamdenizen – This is not an advertisement. I’m curious, interested, and excited at it’s prospects. If this was an advertisement I would probably be crowing about it’s efficiency and/or lower costs of operation. Neither of which I know anything about at this point.

This seems like an advertisement to me, rather than an honest inquiry for information. But hey, that’s just me…

tl;dr response: solar is sexy and this system sounds fun, but I suspect neither solution will heat as nicely or be as efficient and cost-effective as you are hoping, and there are far better systems out there for you.

As a homeowner trying to learn lessons myself: chasing efficiencies is extremely tempting but also often illusory. There’s tons of factors to consider obviously, but consider the example of a $5,000 boiler that is 97% efficient but lasts ~10 years and which may not actually save you money over a $1500 boiler that is 85% efficient and lasts 15-20 years. (I say this as someone who bought a 97% efficient boiler). Yes it’s potentially more efficient! But heating gas is so cheap that the savings in a home may only translate to a few tens of dollars a month— and you only get that in the 6 months of heating season. While it’s great to be efficient and looks and comfort definitely count, you have to compare the cost of install and maintainance and then amortize everything over the life of the system. I can only imagine the up-front costs of setting up a 15 or 20 radiators, new wiring, potentially new service, is magnitudes larger than a solid, efficient boiler with zone controls, TRVs and so on.

For solar it’s the same situation. If you’re renovating, odds are all your new appliances will now be super efficient, you might have lots of LED fixtures, and so your electrical bill may end up being negligible (until you intall an electric heating system). Then also consider , in winter when you’ll having the electrical going full bore to heat all your radiators, there’s very little solar electrical generation going on as the days are short and not so sunny–so you’ll be buying electrical all winter long. This company should be able to tell you pretty precisely how much electricity you’ll require to power X number of radiators in a space X large with X heat loss on X degree days. I suspect the cost to install and maintain panels may never get you even with what you think you’ll save (though maybe you’ll get lucky with rebates/taxes) in electrical costs.

@Master Plvmber, I don’t know if it’s good – that’s what I’m trying to figure out – I simply said I was still intrigued as the system sounds like it checks off a lot of boxes that we may not be able to afford otherwise. I’m not discounting the input of those who have responded. They will all serve to inform my final decision.

I am, however, looking for first hand experience and real world numbers. I understand that you don’t like the idea, and I believe your concerns are valid. You’ve helped add some serious questions that need answering from the manufacturer.

I don’t think baseboard heat is as good a way to go since the thermal mass of the units are not nearly as high as the old radiators – the cast iron should hold the heat for a much longer time than the thin aluminum fins of baseboard heaters, and the rads should not dry out the space the way traditional electric heat often does. Also, if they are wired like baseboard, shouldn’t they draw like baseboard? Honest question – I am not an electrician.

We do intend to generate all of our electricity through solar po wer so after a period of time the heating should theoretically run for “free”, while a gas system will always require me to pay for gas. Cheaper gas is still more expensive than free electricity.

We are in the process of using the sizes of the rooms and their rads to determine what size element need be added to heat each space. That should give us an idea of the actual electrical consumption of each unit, which will determine the final decision.

Once I have this information I will report back.

You still think this is good. Let me ask you: why not just cut out the middle man and install electric baseboard heaters instead of retrofitting cast iron radiators, filling them with whatever liquid, hoping they don’t leak, then adding the cost of making all that liquid and metal warm to your heating costs?
120-volt power is not the whole story. Each radiator will have an amperage draw. There is a limit to how many amps you can provide to an electrical circuit, and a limited number of amps available in your home’s electrical service.
I hope you try it and report back here. I find this to be a spectacularly absurd idea.

Thank you everyone who replied. I am quite surprised that no one has any experience with these, so the hunt for real world usage data continues.

We plan on installing a solar array to generate all of our home’s electricity, so the cost of electric as delivered by a utility doesn’t really come into play here.

I am still intrigued by this method as it will also allow every single rad to become individually controlled as its own zone (or grouped through a modern smart home solution). This also prevents us from having to buy and maintain a large hydronic boiler, and allows us a possible break on our insurance as their is a lot less water running throughout the space (and therefore less chance of water damage – the “new” bogeyman of the insurance industry).

@Augustiner, I am being told that the units are wired with standard 120V line just as a baseboard heater would be, so I don’t think the cost of electrical line is as much a concern as you suspected.

If anyone has any first hand experience, I would still love to hear it.

Thanks again to all who have contributed.

why on earth would anyone want to do that?
The high demand electrical wiring for that will cost you an arm and a leg. You’ll probably need to upgrade your electrical main service to be able get 15 kw to heat 3500 sqf.
Not to speak of the monthly electrical bill that will cause ($ 800 / month when it gets cold)
And that you are in fact heating with Trump coal (read up on how electricity is produced in the US), but very inefficiently