double door Brownstone
Hello there, we would need to replace our entrance door for our brownstone. we understand that it could get pretty expensive and was wondering if there some contact you could share? the salvage original doors are too expensive for us unfortunately. thank you much Emmanuel
mprovy
in General Discussion 3 years and 3 months ago
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naomisteinberg | 3 years and 3 months ago
Steve from The Tinker’s Wagon is extremely knowledgable, friendly, and fair. Highly recommend! http://www.thetinkerswagon.com/
naomisteinberg | 3 years and 3 months ago
Steve from The Tinker’s Wagon is extremely knowledgable, friendly, and fair. Highly recommend! http://www.thetinkerswagon.com/
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 3 months ago
Augustiner about sums up the challenges with rebuilding these doors though we can over come bad warps (the last job i did i made sure that the doors were straight and flat in the shop and when i installed them, i found the sides of the frame were out of alignment; we have ways around this and in that case, i did some work to the frames). weather proofing them is another issue and i never make a promise about weather proofing on the double entry doors but instead advise people to have me insulate the inner, single door (and i use stuff that looks the part, none of that suburban looking home depot stuff). this is the problem with a lot of flipper homes, they remove the vestibule to use the added space as a selling point and do not consider the entry doors and how much air they will let in during the winter. On the rare occasions that i am able to weather proof double entry doors enough to please a customer i tell them “do not tell anyone i did that as i consider it to be luck”.
in so far as what classic1 says, when we do doors, we take care of everything and so me years back i realized that this is a lot of money for most people. so we began including at minimum a Marks 91A Mortise lock. every job gets one, its part of the quote. if people want to upgrade from there, i can manage that (some times i source stuff on ebay) and if they want to wait a few years to get a baldwin, i might help with that. i will say it here, i cannot rebuild any pair of doors for less than 8,000 but i do sometimes feel as though i am a bit more thorough than others and i have been very careful to use appropriate finishes and no longer experiment with new water based clear coats (the longevity is not there) and i have NEVER used interior products on the outside of a building but i am aware that many people do. we use only the best epoxies for assembly (west system).
which brings me to this, vard. photos may be good for newbies and less experienced people but when i was a newbie and hired a GC for the first gut reno i oversaw in 1990, i did not look at any photos of their work. i sometimes think that photos are something that contractors use to compensate for something – lack of technical know how which must be explained to customers (and if they cannot explain it, they do not know it). in the case of exterior doors and someone using the wrong product (interior lacquer outside) customers will look at the photo and see what “looks” like museum quality work and will wrongly assume that if a contractor can produce that, then he must be doing the right thing (its deceptive). you mention variations shown on work in 3 different photos; i am not sure i would know what i am looking at in those photos and i finished my first piece of wood in 1976 (it could be poor lighting control on the “photographer’s” part, it could be graining in the wood, uv damage in old wood, or simply different kinds of finishes) (i would not even want to pick someone else’s work apart on here that way as i might be wrong). I will be honest and let you know what bothers me about this; the person producing museum quality entry doors by spraying interior varnish on them can get better “looking” results in less than half the time i can by using the correct (traditional, slow drying) product. keep in mind, to do finishing and make it look presentable enough for a customer to be pleased is very easy (anyone reading this can do it with some training). its what it looks like in 3 years and i can guarantee you that any of the photos you are looking at were taken immediately after the job was done and any variations you see will not matter if the finish is cracked and peeling in a few years. i appreciate your comments vard.
classc1 | 3 years and 3 months ago
I forgot to add that the doors are gorgeous.
classc1 | 3 years and 3 months ago
To the original poster. I’m unclear. Do you want to restore your original doors? If so, I have a recommendation. We recently purchased old brownstone doors, had them restored and they were recently installed. Leave your contact info if interested in the info. It’s not cheap however and expect to pay in the $7,000 -$8,000 range, not including locks. Cheaper than a new door however.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 3 months ago
@Steve I know the build is important but the finishing is as well. I see inconsistency in finishing in some of these photos. Companies that do multiple things; woodworking, doors etc often do work that’s better in one area.
Augustiner | 3 years and 3 months ago
I just restored a botched 11ft high entrance door as part of a larger project. Replaced glass with insulated panels. Replaced sanded down trim with sapele (that was a cool $ 2,500 just for just the moldings because the quarter rounds required a custom knife) Inserted an electric door strike for intercom. Fitted rubber gaskets.
Here is are my takeaways:
– it’s a lot of work and you can’t rush it.
– it’s hard to get it sealed because the wood is just warped and old
– If someone quotes 10 to 15k for the job it’s not a crazy number
– if your door is not an elaborate piece of art but 2 square bottom pieces and a half round transom, do yourself a favor: throw it in the trash and recreate it or order a custom one from Europe .Then put some moldings on it and stain or paint it according to taste.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 3 months ago
@Evan How much was it to salvage the door (price of door and labor). Several door makers I spoke said they would not be willing to change a door to fit.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 3 months ago
vard, there is a lot we cannot tell from photos and your communication is coming across to me. working in this and having dealt with customers for years, i get to see what people base judgements on. i was using your comments as a talking point to reinforce that to less experienced home owners. i do appreciate your comments.
Op is not aware of it but i meet a half dozen people a year who think there is a silver bullet to getting something done on the cheap and they regret it in the end. that is why i continued this conversation in the direction i did. people have to understand when things take time and when people want to have skilled people do things, it costs money, especially in a city like new york. it is an expensive place to live and work.
that vintagedoors.com that neilw mentions. i did give them a call a few weeks back and they seem to be the real deal. they are making doors by i think gluing up two solid pieces of wood to make a stile or rail. this was an accepted way to make doors a century ago and they come out fairly stable. i rebuild a c ouple a year made this way and see relatively few problems with that type of construction. i have not asked vintage doors for pricing for entry doors, but when considering whether to rebuild or buy new from a manufacturer located in a region where their overhead is less, it still may not offer much savings because a lot has to be done to install new doors in an old frame (hinge and lock mortises, maybe work on the frame, the hardware and perhaps it has to be trimmed or finished). it is hard to escape the inevitable in old houses and that is things cost money and they cost more money to do correctly.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 3 months ago
Of course how it’s built is important but one cannot see that from a photo. I guess never mind. I don’t want to go in circles because my communication isn’t coming across.
stevecym | 3 years and 3 months ago
Many people do not realize that the prep work and the technical aspects of applying finishes and particularly exterior finishes is more important than what it looks like. When I have help work for me, I often have to keep an eye on them because even though they have been told and warned that every step is important, they will take shortcuts if they think it will not impair how the visiual at the end. Ask any one who has bought a house from a flipper: everything looks great the day you move in and 6 months later the finishes fail and everything falls apart, including the doors.
Visiual is important. What you dont see is more important and customers have to understand that if somebody who does something everyday cannot look them in the eye and tell them the process, the steps, and name the adhesives and finishes that they use everyday, something is wrong.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 3 months ago
Yes that is correct. I was referring to the visual aspect while you describe methods, process and technical details. Remember homeowners care about how it looks, how it feels, how it functions and whether it will be durable. I cannot speak to the last three looking at photos so initially I would look at it for some kind of visual standard.
Most of us don’t want to know what kind of paint you put beyond will it last and look good. Not saying that’s not important but how many homeowners ask detailed questions about those things.
stevecym | 3 years and 3 months ago
Vard, there is a lot more to rebuilding or making a door than the finish. But with the finish, you are correct, there are people using interior finishes outside and for a while we were using an exterior water base finish and had to drop it because it was not as durable as genuine marine products. For clear coats on exterior doors, we now only use genuine marine varnish (petit, epifanes, interlux). Four coat minimum but I put many doors in with 5 or 6 coats. I sand the wood to 120 grit for good mechanical bond and sand between coats at 220.
I will be exploring a product called sikkens soon. I have seen it in the boat yards on long island and recently saw a man using it here by me. That door gets a dose of afternoon sun and I will be watching its longevity over the next couple of years.
The problem with the genuine marine varnishes is only one coat per day can be put on and it slows the jobs down. That does not make it easy in an environment where people have to get done and get paid. The interior lacquer and the water base exterior, at least two coats per da y can be applied. Spraying interior lacquer looks nicer with less effort than the exterior oil products.
For paints, we use ben Moore or sherwin Williams. Once in a while Fine. I have thought about marine paints but suspect they may be made more for fiberglass and might be too hard for the expansion and contraction of wood.
Thank you vard.
Stevecym and doors by are the same.
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 3 months ago
The quality of finish varies from one woodworker to the next. That’s all.
neilw | 3 years and 3 months ago
I’ve been looking at https://vintagedoors.com/ and they have quite a few options, and can even get doors thick enough to replicate traditional entry doors. Prices seem relatively reasonable, but 100+ year old entryways may not be the easiest retrofit. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet, and really need a knowledgeable installer’s help.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 3 months ago
vard, what “finish” are you talking about when you say “varying degrees”? and what are you comparing that against?
hasibur.rahman07 | 3 years and 3 months ago
Varying degrees of finish across the three. As long as you are comfortable with the finish, price and working relationship, any of them will fit what you need. Search the forum for all three names so you get a better sense. Keep in mind some woodworkers will not salvage doors.
cynthiab
in General Discussion 3 years and 3 months ago
Vaughan at Heights Woodworking just made me a gorgeous interior door. It was not cheap, but its beautiful.
cynthiab
in General Discussion 3 years and 3 months ago
Vaughan at Heights Woodworking just made me a gorgeous interior door. It was not cheap, but its beautiful.