Contractor Issues
Hi All – I need to understand whether these things are “normal” and par for the course:
My contractor refuses to give me the code to the padlocks that allow me to enter my house. They say it is not safe for me to enter and they are liable and that I am not allowed to enter. I have asked several times and they say the only option is for me to go there and meet them on a supervised visit. I have literally stood outside with workers inside at the windows refusing to let me in. When they work inside, they lock the padlock on the outside construction fence.
They would like to use a digger/machinery to dig out the basement of an attached 17 ft wide townhouse. They have done significant underpinning work to dig out the basement based on the structural engineering plan and have asked the engineer to create a plan that allows them to remove part of the facade and floor joists to bring in a machine. The engineer was willing to work with them on this but the contractor never responded to the engineer’s questions and sketch of what the contractors have in mind. Now the con tractor says the engineer is at fault for stalling and has sent disparaging finger pointing emails to him saying the delay in finishing the dig is the engineer’s fault. Contractor cannot provide any papertrail to demonstrate they sent anything to the engineer. Permit also only says hand tools. Contractor says that was never the plan and hand digging the basement will take 40 days.
Contractor would only give me a timeline for the first four months and said he did not want to send me anything because did not want to be held to a schedule.
They insult me and call me ignorant whenever I try to get an understanding of what is happening.
This is the same contractor that got a stop work order after two days of work and took them several failed inspections and five months to get it lifted.
They want to charge me for their liability insurance because my job requires a higher liability limit.
I sought other bids during the stop work order to try and switch contractors but they were coming in 50-75% higher than the original bid by current contractor. I cannot afford these new bids by a long shot! It feels like I either try to get to the finish line with these guys or just abandon it all together.
I am at a loss.
InBklyn76
in General Discussion 3 years ago
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33 replies
fxtrot2000 | 3 years ago
@Inblyn, not sure if you missed my post but if you reach out – I will share a contractor’s info. I don’t recommend an owner’s rep in this situation.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
You need an “owner’s rep”. The person you will select has to have come from the heavy construction industry. Excavation, steel, concrete. I am sure there are free lances out there and i am sure they work a few jobs at a time.
Look on the internet for owner’s construction rep.
InBklyn76 | 3 years ago
If I had to do it all over again, I would do SO many things differently. Everyone told me it could be really tough but I think I believed that given my level of organization and the assurances of the architect who is doing construction administration, that I could come out of the other side of this with some battle scars but with a finished house that I love. But I put way too much trust in the architect given she had worked with these guys before and given none of their projects blew up, I assumed mine would not as well.
They give her the runaround. She had a male project manager on it and they were rude to him as well. But I do think perhaps I need to find a man who knows something about construction to go over there and engage with them.
When I reached out to the special inspector and he shared some of his insights with me after the first structural engineer inspection, I relayed this back to the contractor and he screamed at me telling me the special inspector and structural engineer work for him. I said I signed the contract and I pay their invoices and he es sentially said it did not matter. They are the worst bullies I have ever encountered. And the thing I do not understand is that I am the customer and essentially paying them for this abuse.
If anyone has any references of contractors I could reach out to that specialize in coming in after this type of situation, I would appreciate it. I am hoping I can just get through the dig and have them finish the structural things. At this point I just want some walls, a kitchen, bath and place to sleep. The additional floor can wait, finishing the basement and all the millwork. For now a simple shelter will do.
My mortgage/construction loan was interest only for 18 months. Sept 1 it goes up to full principal and interest on the entirety even though I have only drawn down 10% of the construction loan. I have to sell my current apartment to pay down the principal and get the mortgage to a decent place. So the financial cliff is fast approaching. I have money set aside for an emergency fund but would rather not clean myself out to $0 and a half-finished unlivable house. It feels like doomsday right now. [F273BDB0-CA09-4F6B-904C-246FEFC50EB3](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:HJjC:f273bdb0ca094f6b904c246fefc50eb3.png.jpg)
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Bob, i sometimes wonder if customers give us men in this industry too much leeway. “They are workers so we should expect them to be mysogonistic and use foul language and be rude”. We are not all like that and what i think happens is, people work with this element of this industry and what they later learn is that their outward demeanor is only the tip of the ice berg. If they call a customer “ignorant” to their face, it means they do not give a toss about anything. When i am interviewing someone and he says “i can’t tell you the s**t that went on in that place” only 5 minutes after i meet him, i realize that if he does not give a crap about how he looks in front of me, he is not going to care about how WE look in front of a customer and if he does not care about that, what else does he not care about?
I bet as homeonwers pick the higher bids, they find the manner of the owner and workers changes. The reason the low bid is the low bid might be because they project an indifferent or rude image and people do not want them.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years ago
Reading this post, and others like it, makes me very glad that I’ve never needed to hire a contractor. Our house was neglected when we bought it, but in good enough shape that BBC we could use individual trades people and that has continued over the years. We’ve used plumbers, electricians, roofers, carpenters, plasterers, painters, etc. Sometimes coordination has been an iss,he, but never that difficult. I’m in awe of those who take on really large scale renovations, but glad it’s not something I’ve done.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Op, when i hear things like this combined with them calling you “ignorant” i begin to feel as though these men probably are sort of “piggish”. Generally, even though i am a guy and work in this industry, i try to avoid these kinds of people be cause while they can be horrible to women, they are not always nice to men either. I also notice that people treat me different depending on how i am dressed; if i am wearing work clothes, these types show me greater respect than if i have khakis and a collared shirt on.
Is there any way you can get a more working class guy to go over there with you when you visit and let him be your pit bull terrier? Find a guy who will walk in and tell them if they do not open the door he will open it for them. Have him push back against them a bit. They will get the message and if they don’t, keep bringing him back.
Some people – men and women- are too nice to deal with certain people and all of us who work in this know we sometimes have to either grow a pair or grow a bigger pair.
I still do not think this will fix the ult imate problem. If money and their competence are the underlying issues, if you ramp the pressure up, they will become more difficult.
fxtrot2000 | 3 years ago
@InBklyn. So terrible to hear you are going through this. Please connect – I went through this and know several others who had or have similar predicaments. We will help you as much as we can. dkerr5575@gmail.com
Guest User | 3 years ago
you will have to fire this contractor …. he is only going to hit you with endless delays ,excuses and substandard work…cut your losses now.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
op, i hate to tell you this, because that bid was 20% lower, this is going to get worse before it gets better. contractors do not have the margins to bid 20% lower and when this happens they ask for more money or abandon jobs. that is why it is impossible to wrangle them, the money is not there.
with them calling you ignorant. if a contractor called my wife ignorant, i would pick their tools up and throw them in the front yard and lock them out of the house. they said that to you because you are a woman.
this is not going to end well. start on a plan “b” now as you figure out how to get rid of them.
InBklyn76 | 3 years ago
It was the lowest bid at the time by 20% or so. There was a $375K change order when the structural engineer did their evaluation. The house is attached on both sides and had no foundation and single shared walls so the change order basically meant a lot of structural work and essentially replacing every joist and building party walls etc. We gut checked the change order with other contractors and they seemed to think it was reasonable.
My architect selected the original three contractor bids. She noted the quality of the finished product would be on par with the more expensive contractors but they were harder to work with. She is doing “construction administration” for a monthly fee and noted the burden of their disorganization would fall on her. Unfortunately she does not seem to be able to wrangle them either.
Given everything I know now, I would have gone with the more expensive contractors without a doubt. I would also have likely not even undertake n this project given I am a single mom with young kids and a demanding career. Just too much and so stressful.
irfan | 3 years ago
Echoing this is atypical in my experience. I visit my project several times a week to monitor progress, with and without the GC and have my own key. They do keep the doors locked even when inside though for safety and to avoid prying eyes. We all work well with the architect and engineer and there is open communication. We actually took the highest bidder because it was not much more and he had the best vision for our project and he was most established. I almost never take the lowest.
My GC did offer to increase his usual insurance limits for my townhouse reno if we wanted to but would pass on the extra cost. His limits were more than legally required and we have our own construction policy that protects us and the building so we didn’t bother. Just a data point.
Good luck to op
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
To your last line: i doubt you will get to the finish line. They have made too many mistakes that are costing them too much money and they will ask you for more money. Let them keep working provided some progress is being made and you go back to one of those people who want 50% more and start talking to them.
Document everything with this crowd and tell them all communication is to be in writing including requests for more money. So long as there is nothing in the contract allowing them over runs, do not give it to them; tell them it is their responsibility. Eventually, they will abandon the job.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Was this the lowest bid? It is ok to select the lowest bid when they come in together in a group within say 2 – 3% of each other.
Some contractors purposely bid low to get jobs and once it is too late to get rid of them, they ask for more money and play stupid as if they made a mistake. I do not like this racket because it takes jobs from the honest contractors who bid and negotiate with good intent.
The problem is, even if he bid to low and you try to tell him that is his fault and responsibility, it sounds like money is becoming an issue and if the money is not there to finish this, he is not going to find it. Btw, the cost of insurance is his problem and his responsibility, not yours.
Your contractor sounds like a winner.