Contractor Issues
Hi All – I need to understand whether these things are “normal” and par for the course:
My contractor refuses to give me the code to the padlocks that allow me to enter my house. They say it is not safe for me to enter and they are liable and that I am not allowed to enter. I have asked several times and they say the only option is for me to go there and meet them on a supervised visit. I have literally stood outside with workers inside at the windows refusing to let me in. When they work inside, they lock the padlock on the outside construction fence.
They would like to use a digger/machinery to dig out the basement of an attached 17 ft wide townhouse. They have done significant underpinning work to dig out the basement based on the structural engineering plan and have asked the engineer to create a plan that allows them to remove part of the facade and floor joists to bring in a machine. The engineer was willing to work with them on this but the contractor never responded to the engineer’s questions and sketch of what the contractors have in mind. Now the con tractor says the engineer is at fault for stalling and has sent disparaging finger pointing emails to him saying the delay in finishing the dig is the engineer’s fault. Contractor cannot provide any papertrail to demonstrate they sent anything to the engineer. Permit also only says hand tools. Contractor says that was never the plan and hand digging the basement will take 40 days.
Contractor would only give me a timeline for the first four months and said he did not want to send me anything because did not want to be held to a schedule.
They insult me and call me ignorant whenever I try to get an understanding of what is happening.
This is the same contractor that got a stop work order after two days of work and took them several failed inspections and five months to get it lifted.
They want to charge me for their liability insurance because my job requires a higher liability limit.
I sought other bids during the stop work order to try and switch contractors but they were coming in 50-75% higher than the original bid by current contractor. I cannot afford these new bids by a long shot! It feels like I either try to get to the finish line with these guys or just abandon it all together.
I am at a loss.
InBklyn76
in General Discussion 3 years ago
33
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33 replies
johanespitberg | 3 years ago
I dont think there should ever be a reason for a homeowner to be locked out of their own property. Insurance doesnt work that way either. liability is only for employees of the business. https://combsconstructiongroup.com/
Guest User | 3 years ago
sorry to hear that. info.mattsch@gmail.com shoot me an email might be able to help
Guest User | 3 years ago
sorry to hear that. info.mattsch@gmail.com shoot me an email might be able to help
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
We can debate some of this but i like your statement “this sounds like your garden variety jerk with a heap of mysogeny on top”. Where have we seen that before and how did we let that happen?
Guest User | 3 years ago
@doorsby unfortunately contractors don’t always show their true colors until they’re on the job, and once there it is incredibly difficult to extricate yourself from the contractual relationship. it’s a crappy situation. The larger companies can send one team to bid and another team once they get the job but the typical homeowner or individual isn’t going to have the knowledge or ability to be able to call them on whatever BS may be going on at the jobsite. That’s where the architect has to step in. I have to add here though that this type of behavior isn’t limited to contractors, who do sometimes get a bad rap. Contractors do not have a monopoly on being jerks.
Guest User | 3 years ago
@doorsby unfortunately contractors don’t always show their true colors until they’re on the job, and once there it is incredibly difficult to extricate yourself from the contractual relationship. it’s a crappy situation. The larger companies can send one team to bid and another team once they get the job but the typical homeowner or individual isn’t going to have the knowledge or ability to be able to call them on whatever BS may be going on at the jobsite. That’s where the architect has to step in. I have to add here though that this type of behavior isn’t limited to contractors, who do sometimes get a bad rap. Contractors do not have a monopoly on being jerks.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Maggie, thank you for echoing what i have been trying to say. I have been trying to tell people on this board that over the past decade i have watched people choose contractors under the assumption that certain behavior from us who work is acceptable as if we are simply rude, crass people. I spoke to someone yesterday who reinforced that it is the people the customers are selecting that is the issue. As soon as i can, i am going to talk to some contacts in heavy construction and see what they have to say about behavior towards customers and vice versa.
After forty years of working in this industry i have never seen or heard anything like this. Simply put, people are setting the bar low. Raise the bar: i do. I have interviewed scores of people for in-house positions, subs, contractors; if any one of them curses or looks at me funny as i ask them questions during an interview, they are cut from consideration.
Maggie, you mention that a contractor who behaved a certain way ended up under indictment. Read what i say above about having a contractor’s employ ee removed from my house with no warning for asking me for a cigarette: my reasoning was, if he crosses that line with me, what other lines will he cross? Will he cross the line from the bathroom they were renovating and walk into the master bedroom where he looks for jewelry? Slippery slope maybe. Tight ship, yes.
People have to choose contractors as if they will be sharing an office with them or working in the next cubicle. If you don’t want to work in a professional environment with them, do not hire
them. You will weed out half your problems right there.
Guest User | 3 years ago
Sorry you’re going through this. I just wanted to counter Shamrock’s statements above that this kind of communication is normal. It is not. There is a fair amount of misogyny in the construction industry but the majority is casual and easily defended against but from your description this doesn’t sound like that. This sounds like someone who is just a garden-variety jerk, with a hefty dose of misogyny on top. Your architect vouched for this contractor and you are being mistreated. Your current architect needs to provide some suggestions for how to proceed (either with or without this contractor) and you should make sure you read your contract with them and the contractor carefully regarding non-performance, etc.
The last time I interacted with a contractor who behaved like this he ended up being indicted for procurement fraud against the US Air Force. He is currently in the federal penitentiary. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy… (i didn’t have anything to do with that, it just felt kinda good to see him get his just desserts)
Guest User | 3 years ago
Sorry you’re going through this. I just wanted to counter Shamrock’s statements above that this kind of communication is normal. It is not. There is a fair amount of misogyny in the construction industry but the majority is casual and easily defended against but from your description this doesn’t sound like that. This sounds like someone who is just a garden-variety jerk, with a hefty dose of misogyny on top. Your architect vouched for this contractor and you are being mistreated. Your current architect needs to provide some suggestions for how to proceed (either with or without this contractor) and you should make sure you read your contract with them and the contractor carefully regarding non-performance, etc.
The last time I interacted with a contractor who behaved like this he ended up being indicted for procurement fraud against the US Air Force. He is currently in the federal penitentiary. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy… (i didn’t have anything to do with that, it just felt kinda good to see him get his just desserts)
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Randolph: he gets a boat load of credit for admitting it. That’s a pretty big hurdle right there.
randolph | 3 years ago
> @Shamrock
> Also some men (including myself) have problems responding to an assertive woman.
:/ maybe you should work on that one
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Shamrock, i don’t vouch for firing this person myself, it will be a mess.
Op, if what shamrock has said about scope changing because of the change order is true and this led to the insurance issue after the job was underway, the contractor has a grievance. But if the contractor came up with the number for that change order, the insurance should have been included in that number. He should have advised of this at it was happening – that he did not seem to be aware it might happen is still troubling in that it implies he has never taken jobs where he has had to purchase additional insurance.
Part of the reason i begin to think these contractors are incompetent is in 40 years, i have never had anyone call me or anyone on our team ignorant or anything like it on jobs we were running as employees of a building (and i am sure we have have given plenty of people plenty of reason to call us a lot of things; its just not does happen) nor has anyone on my team as a contractor ever said anything like this to a customer. As i said above, this is something that is looked for during the selection process and if it looks like a contractor has the propensity to get abusive, we cut them from the candidates.. if a member of the contractor’s team is abusive, he has to handle it. Its actually worse if someone on his team does it because it means they neither respect their boss nor the customer.
I had a contractor remove an employee from my house simply for asking me for a cigarette one time. No warning. Not only do i not smoke but we did not have any sort of repore. That he asked showed very bad judgement – he crossed a line. Calling customers “ignorant” crosses that line and it is not worth trying to teach these people what is wrong with it. It does not matter if the contractor is frustrated.
simpkins1970 | 3 years ago
This is terrible and really sorry you had to experience this! This is the exact type of scenario that gives contractors a bad name however, there are many good ones out there!
Shamrock | 3 years ago
Steve, the point that I’m making is that 90% of customers hate their contractor at some point during the job. Also some men (including myself) have problems responding to an assertive woman. The architect vouched for this contractor’s ability to complete the job.
If money isn’t a problem fire his ass, but the cost of this job will balloon. It sounds to me that the contractor is ready willing and able to complete this job, but he’s pissed off that the job has increased in scope, and the engineer/architect are dragging their feet in getting the permit / go ahead to excavate the basement. I don’t know how this architect did not know that the basement would need to be excavated. Maybe the homeowner should stick with the original plan, leave the structural work alone.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Op. In case you did not read what i said above, i thought of someone who could be a great resource. He came up in construction but teaches graduate level classes at pratt. I took a restoration class with him twenty years ago. He did this kind of stuff. I wont post his name here as i have not spoken to him in a long time. He will have a list of contacts as long as my leg. Also, people who teach are very free with information and ideas. He is still listed on pratt’s website. You can reach me at www.thetinkerswagon.com if you wish.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Shamrock, this contractor was either not aware of his insurance limits or was not aware that this kind of job had higher limits, above what he carries. This tells me one thing and one thing only: he has never done this work before. Contractors do not discuss insurance with customers the way he has with op; we find out what we need and get the customer a certificate before the job begins and do not ask for more money for insurance later; the fact that he has asked her for money over this means the job is in trouble.
Shamrock is correct but for others reading this, a lot of this can be sorted out during the selection phase of a project. Its just like a job interview.
Some of these people are just what shamrock said they are and they know they are that: they know they don’t like working with women or men wearing jackets and ties. Men like this do not readily open up because they do not want to show who they are. Spending time talking to them, asking them questions during the selection process to see if you can press some buttons to get them to show w ho they really are can prevent a lot of this. When i am dealing with blue collar types – and remember – we have a lot to worry about in this industry; theft, rudeness, substance abuse, – i watch them to see that they can look me in the eye as we converse and if they cannot i always take it that there is something they do not want me to know. I suppose reading these people take experience; when i first began in management, i used to feel anyone with too much polish was a salesman looking to “pull the wool over my eyes”.
I think we’ve lowered the bar a lot. I said it in a reply above, people give too much latitude to men in this industry (not women; the women in this industry are usually great because they have to work twice as hard to prove themselves) and assume that what they are seeing is par for the course.
Op, i might have a suggestion of someone you can talk to. I cannot offer any help beyond that as this heavy construction is not my thing. Feel free to reach me via my website: www.thetinkerswagon.com.
Shamrock | 3 years ago
Firing the contractor is a cut off your nose to spite your face solution.
Its perfectly normal to hate your contractor.
The contractor doesn’t know how to interact with an assertive professional woman, and maybe you don’t know how to talk to a blue collar moron. This is the source of your problem. But this sort of problem isn’t unique to this job.
If you don’t have a problem over money, or the quality of work with this contractor, step back and take a deep breath. You’re smarter than he is, try to make it work.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Op, not that you want this to come to this but do they have a completion bond? If they do and you decide you no longer want them around (and make that determination after consulting with others, other major construction professionals), do not give them any more money than they are entitled and do not give them any renegotion on the contract. Don’t give them anything that will allow them to delay the inevitable. If they walk, bring the bond into play.
Check the terms on the bond.
andriywww1990 | 3 years ago
Start by calling dk. That phone call might lead you to others who know a lot about your specific situation.
If you bring someone in, the first thing i would do is put the attitudes and disposition of the people on the job aside and have your person look at the overall job to see that these people at least know what they are doing. If they appear to know something, then your chosen person can tweek the other stuff and try to get them on track.
What makes me question their competency is that they brought up the issue of additional cost of insurance later. That all should have been discussed internally as they prepared their bid and nothing should have been said to you about it. Its included in overhead. We all know what our insurance limits are and if these people had done a job like this before, they know how much additional coverage they need. If they did not know of understand that from inception, something is very wrong.