Construction Helper

I am undertaking a small bathroom renovation on my own and am looking for some help. It is a grab bag of things- tiling, minor carpentry, drywall…. HomeDepot parking lot guys want to bid on the whole project but I am looking for one person to help me by the day. Any recommendations? Thanks!

sticksandstones

in General Discussion 3 years and 2 months ago

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andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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OP, i’ll tell you some things that no homeowner who has never done this as a job can tell you. if you read this and begin to think of this the way a contractor might, you might get this job done for not much more than if you did by struggling through this on your own with a cheap helper.

do you know how much time this will take? are you experienced enough to know that? (two people can do a bathroom in something like 80 to 100 hours, me thinks. i do not do bathrooms). if you do not know those things, how can you know how much you can spend on labor or at what rate you can pay that labor? contractors have to consider this before they quote a job and labor is the biggest expense so they must get that right and be aware of it through the entire job.

what green thinker said is the absolute truth. What green thinker did not tell you is, if you find some person who is experienced in this and does it on the weekends, that person is NOT going to give up his or her weekend for 20 an hour or even 30 an hour. i know people who do this – both green card holders and undocumented – and they charge more like 600 a day. i know people who would do this for 350 a day but i bet they are slammed busy in this economy and they will soon be charging 400 a day.

there are other things to consider. do you have all the tools? you will not find someone with ALL the tools at 20 or 30 an hour. Those tools cost money and contractors always have to think forward; as they work they always building something into the budget or their hourly rate to replace a couple of those tools a year. that is why people with tools cost more. are you going to by the tools? even if you have the tools and expect someone else to use them, that will slow the job down. experienced people want to use their own tools because they know the nuances of them and know how to reach for them and turn them in one hand as they pick them up and that makes the job go faster. no wasted time fumbling with cheap or homeowner grade tools or old 14 volt drills. good working tools will shave hours off this job.

Flip the job around:
hire someone with all the tools and experience for something like 400 a day and YOU become the helper. i said it before, there is no way you two are going to work with ease in a small bathroom. so put the experienced person inside hanging the drywall, the other (you) is outside cutting and handing, etc and cleaning up and you save money by keeping that person working. you clean up your self after each day. and you demo (a helper would demo on a job like this).

if you do what i say above, you might double your hourly rate but the job might move twice as fast. that is why experience people get paid what they do .

i do not mind helping people who are honest about their situations or who have an emergency and have to do what they have to do. but if someone is trying to pay people 20 an hour because they have a hard choice between doing the bathroom and buying a new convertible sports car, i do not want to know them.

andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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OP, I hope this is as helpful as what Green said:

when we moved into this house, I would not have been able to afford a new bathroom, even if I did it myself (and the bathroom we had was pretty crappy broken tiles, stained and missing grout, 1920’s fixtures). Had I done it myself and something went wrong, things could have gotten expensive fast. The truth is if you can ONLY afford a $20 an hour helper, you are ALREADY flying too close to the sun. when we went through this, we chose to suffer the crappy bathroom and we saved for 7 years and then had it done. When I encounter customers where the difference of 500 dollars might break the bank on a job that costs 10k and can possibly wait, I advise them to wait as opposed to proceeding if money is that much of an issue.

From the standpoint of trying to hire people for 20 an hour, people who do not know where their next pay check will come from and people who have to save for a sick day or an injury and retirement, $20 an hour is like paying them $10 an hour on the books. this is well below minimum wage. Someo ne working for 20 an hour and no sick days will NOT be able to buy food and medicine if they end up out sick with covid for a month. As we negotiate having work done in our houses, we have to keep in mind that we are dealing with adults who will probably never own a house. No matter how hard it is for us, day laborers consider us to be the lucky ones.

This issue is a worker’s rights issue. we no longer have a worker’s rights movement in this country because most people cod themselves into thinking that workers rights had been resolved in the last century. But there are still plenty of people who find ways to take advantage of people who labor (and if I let them they would take advantage of me as quick as anyone else). some of these people would love nothing more than to see the new norm for tradespeople become $20 an hour “cash” and they would use every reason in the book to justify it. Some people try to show solidarity with workers marginalized communities affected by this behavior by hanging signs in windows that say “BLM” and “no human is illegal” but at the same time they do not want to discuss the elephant in the room; inequality. If people like you and I try to hire someone for 20 an hour to help with our bathrooms, we are feeding into a system designed to keep people who work with their hands divided for the benefit of the few (there are people who attack me for saying this on here, this is why they do so. They do not want to hear about higher wages and benefits for anyone at the bottom of this system).

if you had said you were looking to pay a skilled trades person 350 a day, i would have been happy to make some phone calls for you. i will let you know, this person is undocumented and came here to my house before the holidays asking me to help him start a legal company because he is “tired of living in the shadows and tired of not having insurance, and tired of the uncertainty and worry”.

sticksandstones | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Thanks for the helpful reply, Green.

stevecym | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Cate, even if we were talking about 200 a day. 200 a day is only 52,000 a year for people employed full time, in house with state protections. But we were not talking about 200 a day we were talking about 20 an hour for self employed laborers. No permitz was pulling a red herring through here and it looks like he succeeded.

Can I ask what park of this violates listing policies? If it is what no permitz accussed me of and my reply, please remove them. He was wrong to say that to me as it is not true and it should violate listing policies.

cate | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Isn’t $200 a day = $25 an hour = $1,000 a week = $52,000 a year? In any case, let’s please call a truce now so I am not forced to remove this entire thread because it violates our commenting policies. Thank you for your understanding!

andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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no permitz, i have never been attacked on here for saying anything about day laborers. i am the one who has called people out for suggesting people by race and because they source people only because they can take advantage of them. your statement is false. i can probably have the moderators remove it.

anyone you know who makes 200 a day and pays taxes is employed by someone and is on the books and has the protections employers are required to give employees. i know this because i know you enough to know that you do not swim with the sort of people who would otherwise pay their taxes if they were not deducted from their pay.

for me this is a worker’s rights issue. 20 an hour is a dangerous wage for people who live job to job – me included. i don’t care who people hire so long as they pay them a wage that respects the challenges all of us face.

either you cannot stand what i am saying because you do not have the intellect to think beyond yourself or you profit from this system and have to condemn any thing that goes against what is good for you.

yudashasom | 3 years and 2 months ago

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get a grip steve. i know grown adults with families who dont make $200/day AND pay taxes. admit it, you have some kind of issue with day laborers. you’ve said it but got attacked for it so you are taking a different approach now.

GreenThinker | 3 years and 2 months ago

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I wouldn’t get involved with the home depot guys for what you’re describing. If it was just helping you demo or move material, thats fine. But to actually construct something, you’re better off trying to find a guy that works in an actual company, does bathrooms regularly, and wants to make extra money after work/on the weekend. The home depot guys will just leave you frustrated at the end of the day, and you’ll be out 200 with very little to show for it.

I recommend taking a walk around the neighborhood and seeing if theres any new construction developments going up, often developers have good subcontractors that you won’t find through an online search.

JohnHancock | 3 years and 2 months ago

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That amount is not paltry but has no security or benefits built into it. What if he gets hurt, how about social security for his retirement….dont we all enjoy that?

sticksandstones | 3 years and 2 months ago

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As flattered as I am to have a surprise role in an episode of The Tinkerer’s Wagon here on Brownstoner (albeit as an exploitive racist sexist plutocrat) I wasn’t looking to hire Tom Silva. I just need someone to lend a hand and I don’t care if they are white brown pink or purple. I had no idea 200/250 a day cash was considered paltry and, frankly, that is what I can afford.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 3 years and 2 months ago

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Wow indeed. Steve does tend to express himself emphatically, but IMO he’s quite right

sticksandstones | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Wow.

andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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it is not enough that people scrub the language clean of jokes, words like “illegal” and that other word that begins with “n”. those words are a symptom of an underlying problem. those jokes and words are used to put people in “their place” in the “caste” but until we do something about the underlying racism that i point out in the reply above, we are only kidding ourselves.

for anyone who thinks this behavior is ok: No woman reading this right now wants to hear “the xyz corp is now hiring more women because they do not have to pay them the same wage as the men and they also classify the women as contract workers so they do not have to give them the same state protections they have to give the men”. if the women reading this heard something like that about a corporation on 5th avenue, they would be sure it ended up on the front page of the NYT.

andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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200 a day? 20 an hour cash? offering that to people who hang out in HD parking lot? are they white guys like me? didn’t think so. this is NYC. My 16 year old son gets 25 a half hour to shovel snow and 25 an hour to weed the neighbors’ gardens. he has no responsibilities and we provide him with everything. You are trying to pay ADULT HUMAN BEINGS 20 an hour not to be HELPERS but skilled tradespeople. i find it deplorable that you think it is OK that an ADULT with responsibilities and possibly a family should exist on wages that probably would mean they have to sleep in a room with possibly 4 other unrelated adults and without unemployment benefits, without worker’s comp insurance, and without any contribution to retirement nor healthcare. Or were you planning on providing those? or did you think these people can afford these on 20 an hour? what you are doing is sourcing people based on the color of their skin and taking advantage of their status and desperation. You would not dare try this with white me and all that tells me is that this is RACSIM at its best.

Do you have any concept of human dignity?

there is a movement in Brooklyn and other urban areas to stop referring to certain people as “illegal”. if we are going to stop referring to them as illegal, we must not treat them as though they are illegal. if you are of that ilk, then please lead by example. if none of this mean anything to you, then i am sorry i wasted these words on you.

sticksandstones | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Thanks. I was thinking around 200 hundredish a day. 20 bucks an hour cash. Who is Chris Lombardi?

randolph | 3 years and 2 months ago

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i had chris lombardi redo a bathroom for me that was done poorly by the GC that did my gut renovation and I was very pleased – he was on time and budget and no BS. i wish i had used him the first time around.

andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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what were you looking to pay by the day? or hour? maybe i can offer some insight and tell you how to go about it. i have been in this a long time.

Arkady | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Try Sal Mattioli at GVS Contracting – gvscont@aol.com or 718 260 9044

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    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "sticksandstones"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(35273)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(0) {
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks for the reply, Doors. It is tough to find a helper that will work for a day rate… Maybe I’ll have to hire out the whole job.