Cold radiator

One of our radiators is not getting hot. I suspect it’s because the end closest to the hot water pipe is tilted down and the end farthest from the hot water pipe is tilted up, so probably the radiator is not filling with hot water. (The fin closest to the hot water pipe is warm.) It’s a hot water system. The radiator is on a floor that has settled about three inches, at least, and is slanting. Can we shim the radiator — without cracking any pipes? Or should we shim the floor? Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving!

cate

in General Discussion 2 years and 5 months ago

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greenworks | 2 years and 4 months ago

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Thanks eman, we have a bunch of stuff for you, none of which are all that urgent so we were going to wait till summer. Talk then!

Guest User | 2 years and 5 months ago

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i didn’t want to recommend myself because i am currently swamped with work…if you can wait two weeks or so my schedule should open up….errol832000@hotmail.com

greenworks | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Eman, you were the one I was hoping would respond! Not throwing your own hat in to the ring or too modest to do so?

We were going to reach out to you in summer bc we have a to do list for you before we start another project and this issue was on the list-was hoping there might be something we could do in interim but thankfully the room in question isn’t used very often

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Eman, i don’t recall these valves being on any of the hot water systems in buildings i worked in either and am not sure if this is something newer to the market (its been decades for me). The valve i am referring to is a “lockshield” and according to what i just read it is used to restrict the flow of water through the radiator so radiators down stream get enough heated water. It is used to “balance” the system (their terminology). It looks like danfoss makes some of these which has me thinking this is some recent idea from across the pond.

Guest User | 2 years and 5 months ago

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i have yet to see a hot water system with a flow setting valve that steve suggests exists on your system …hire a competent heating professional to figure out what is wrong…Petri, Gateway, etc

greenworks | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks Steve! Will do deep dive into your responses!

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Boo, i read about the hot water systems last night. There is a valve on the outlet (in the same way that two pipe steam has a trap on the outlet) that is adjusted by a “plumber” when they install the radiator. Obviously when they say “plumber” they don’t think homeowners should mess with it. also, for those of us not trained in these things, once we begin tampering with one thing, we can mess something else up on a system.

They also talk about them being “bound” with air which makes me think of a vapor lock or air lock in the fuel line of my old diesel truck (you clear them by opening a connection) but i have no idea what a plumber would do here.

For anyone reading this: the licensing boards for home inspectors (probably at the behest of the real estate industry) do NOT want home inspectors guessing at what is wrong with a house beyond what they see (“the radiator in the master bedroom is not getting warm”). This is because along with not really knowing because we are not (take your pick: plumbers, electricians, engineers) if we start diagnosing and incor rectly specifying what has to be done to correct something (and the cost of such), it can unfairly influence the sale of a home. Contractors face this all the time anyway because “somebody told somebody something” and they had no idea what they were talking about and then in addition to having to justify the job they have to explain why what someone said is wrong.

Www.brownstonehomeinspection.com

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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boo, i cannot help there. any time i bled a radiator it ended up working. i wonder if a section of pipe can be isolated from the radiator or have a high spot in it and have an air lock. i do not know how to void that. on my own house, if i had hot water heat, i would mess around with it until i got it but i can’t suggest that here. i won’t even read about it and suggest as someone can get hurt. Plumber’s job.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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sorry boo. any time i bled a radiator it came back to life. i do not know enough about these systems to guess. i will ask, does this have any sort of a second valve on the outlet side?

greenworks | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Great to hear cate!

Follow up question – didn’t want to post until cate got an answer – we have a single small hot water radiator farthest from boiler that isn’t getting hot at all. I’ve bled it and plain water comes out, no air. Valve is open. Even though farthest from boiler, the primary bedroom radiator just on other side of wall works great.

What next to troubleshoot?

cate | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Thank you, Steve!

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Cate. Check the temperature of the top of that one against the temps of the tops of the others. I f this were my house i would shoot and infrared thermometer at them. It sounds like it still might have some air in it and some other factor in the system has it getting warmer today. Perhaps the system is cycling more and heating it albeit slowly. From what you said the other day, my money says this radiator is not going to get as hot as the others.

I worked in two buildings with hot watet heat. One radiator at the top of a five story staircase was barely warm. I have no idea when the last time anyone had bled anything on that loop was. I bled all of the air out and it got hotter. I might have gone through and bled some other radiators but after a few days, i bled the one at the top of the stairs again and got more air out and it finally worked.

In another building i had a hot water loop and there was no uniformity between any radiators. I think i went around and bled all of them for the sake of it. Even those working well had some air in them.

For conversation sake. I am going to ask my mother if she had a reason for bleeding the radiators in the house i grew up in and if she did just one radiator or all of them. You get a different, not always correct, perspective on this stuff from untrained lay people who really do not know what is going on in the system. The plumbers, they know.

cate | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Today our radiator is getting hot. Maybe I was mistaken before that it wasn’t working (it probably didn’t fix itself, lol). Well, I am grateful it’s working. Thank you all for your help and info.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Augustiner; since you seem to think what i am saying is correct, can i get a like on the statement a few up where i say “it was my mother who bled the radiators in the house i grew up in”? I can still see the radiator key in my mother’s hand as she bled them in the house we had moved into in 1971. I carried that knowledge with me to the first building i worked in with a hot water heating loop in 1998.

Stay at home moms with limited working or middle class resources are the most resourceful people in the world.

Augustiner | 2 years and 5 months ago

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As Homeinspector says:
If a water radiator has an issue bleeding the air will likely solve the issue. Get a 50 ct valve bleeding key and open it until all air is gone and only water comes out.
If the valve is not located at the highest point, meaning that you radiator is sloped the other way, then you should even it out so that the air can escape through the bleeding valve.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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Here is an article from bob villa about bleeding radiators.

https://www.bobvila.com/articles/how-to-bleed-a-radiator/

I will make a couple comments about the article:

First, i am NOT a plumber but the first radiator pictured at the top of the article appears to be a two pipe steam radiator. I say this because it appears to have something that looks like a trap on the bottom outlet, there is no bleeder valve that i can see (the bleeder valve should be on the top left); the presence of the danfoss controller hints steam but hot water systems can have them if there is a hot water line by-passing the radiator. Posting that photo here could cause confusion in the same way people do when talking about steam radiators on a post about a hot water system. I am sure the plumbers will correct me if i am wrong about this-

Second, they mention using a needle nose pliers to open the bleeder valve. I sometimes do things like that as well but even when working on my cars am aware that using pliers like this only makes it harder for the next time around, for the person who wants to do it the right way. See what i say about not knowing the condition of threads above because of what someone has done in the past. If you get a bleed key and have trouble opening the bleeder valve (they will not be excessively tight) because it is stripped (the part the key slips onto, not the threads), call a plumber and have them do it and have them change the bleeder in case anything else goes wrong. Then the next time, all should work fine.

They talk about turning the system off when bleeding these. Probably a good idea but i always did them with the system hot so i can feel the radiator get hot as it was done. The water is under minimal pressure so it will not come out like a garden hose.

Bleeding radiators is not on the same level as changing light bulbs but it is not far above it: home owner 102.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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The concern with opening old things such as the bleeder or taking something apart is you do not know who messed with it before and therefore do not know the condition of the threads. Most of those bleed screws appear to be made of something impervious to oxidation but the radiators are iron and rust. Someone could remove something from a radiator and put it back, crossing a thread. That thread may appear fine and may be holding fine until some unknowing person removes it and finds the damaged thread. It can be fixed but that is beyond most homeowners. For this reason, if a system is operating and someone wishes to bleed something, it is a good idea to check that the valves work to isolate it in case

Its just like anything else on these houses – ask “what if” before proceeding. That should still not stop a homeowner from bleeding something but do no do it on a cold sunday afternoon. Also know where the valve is on the water feed for the system. Btw, the hardware stores sell the bleeder keys. They look like keys to wind a clock.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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The valve can also be closed or partly closed on a hot water radiator and the rest of the system can function because there is a by-pass line. But any time i have experienced part of a hot water radiator getting a little warm, it needed to be bled.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago

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And btw, if you think you have to call a plumber to bleed the radiator, it was my mother who bled them in the house i grew up in.