Code for window gates in brownstone

I’m in the midst of a refi. The question has come up re:window gates. Do we have to cut and get latches or are they grandfathered in?

Sheffey

in General Discussion 8 years and 3 months ago

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Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Thank you.

jvanhorn | 8 years and 3 months ago

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When I purchased last year, I ran into financing issues with my window gates because a bedroom was behind them. I had the developer cut the bars and insert a swing exit door which is barely noticeable. I was able to preserve the historic gate and comply with the law since that is the rental unit.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Noted. That’s a good point.

fiordiligi | 8 years and 3 months ago

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FWIW, I also talked to my erstwhile insurer, as I wasn’t planning to switch insurers on the refi – and the insurer also had no idea where the appraiser was coming from, and told the lender there was no issue for insurance purposes.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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I wasn’t implying that you were making an idle threat. I’m sure you were serious!!!! And warranted. I’m not ready to face a potential lawsuit. I honestly wish I could. It seems like bank bullying to me and I’m offended that this bank would hire someone from the island that didn’t know about brownstone Brooklyn. How’s that leveling the playing field? I’m very close to pulling the loan and dealing with someone else. Keep u posted. Thanks for the info.

fiordiligi | 8 years and 3 months ago

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@Sheffey: Well, I wasn’t making an idle threat, and I WAS eager to get the deal done with the lender in question, as said lender was the one holding my original mortgage, and I got a lower rate with them than I would have with any other. I was also annoyed enough to be ready to sue, but glad I didn’t have to.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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@fiodiligi @murph I actually sent the lender all of the above. The LPC resonded with , “you could apply for a permit”. I send info from the fire dept referencing egress law etc., also historic rhetoric and permits. To no avail. I didn’t however threaten a law suit. I’m not sure I want to make idle threats. I’m not desperate for this lender and just may walk away to another lender.

murph | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Years ago I sought to re-fi and an appraiser from out LI was sent. No problem until he reported I needed to remove all the original bars from my brownstone. I told the bank he was an idiot and did not know NYC rules. Bars are prohibited on bedrooms only in NYC and they were there throughout multiple owners and financings through the last century. No bars were on windows of bedrooms.
I told the bank to send a qualified appraiser with knowledge of the real rules or go screw. I was approved ten minutes later.

fiordiligi | 8 years and 3 months ago

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I’m in a historic district. I got this demand once on a refi appraisal. I just printed out the relevant section of the NYC Fire Code (there were more than enough exits to meet code), as well as the landmark law, and cc’d both to the lender attached to a cover letter stating that if the lender and appraiser continued trying to impose a condition for refinancing that was not only a non-issue per Fire Code but would also force me to break local landmarking laws in order to refinance, and that I would sue . The lender dropped the issue and the bars stayed.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Yes I sure will. I’m taking estimates as of today. Will forward.

paulg998 | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Would you provide the gate removal companies? I am having a problem with Bank for my home equity loan.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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@historicinsider I tried that. The were not cooperative. Neither was the DOB. ?

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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@historicinsider I tried that. The were not cooperative. Neither was the DOB. ?

chris.lopreste | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Simply contact LPC and they will write a letter explaining that your window grilles are an historic feature of the house and can’t be removed without a permit. Your refi company shouldn’t give you any further trouble.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Thank you! We have decided to remove them and then clean them up, and put them back on. I have a great rate and like most of you, I don’t want to prolong this issue. #choosingbattles #fabhouse #grateful.

nalusurf | 8 years and 3 months ago

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When we purchased our brownstone we were required to remove the garden level gates as well. It’s for insurance purposes, they don’t care about original details or land marking. We simply had ours removed until the inspection and subsequent approval and put them back on. I used it as an opportunity to clean them with a grinder and repaint them. An iron worker can remove and replace very easily and not for a lot of money.

cate | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Different lenders have different rules, and it depends on how the house is set up on the inside and the egress. When we refinanced, the historic garden floor security bars were not an issue. We did have to remove modern security bars in the rear of the second floor in a bedroom. (Had the downstairs rooms been set up as bedrooms, perhaps they would have flagged the bars there.) If the lender won’t budge, you can hire someone to remove the bars, have the appraiser over to photograph, and reinstall them later.

Sheffey | 8 years and 3 months ago

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Thanks much. I have something to think about. Appreciate it folks!

EJR | 8 years and 3 months ago

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> @Sheffey
> The appraiser was the organization that red flagged the gates.

That’s my point. If you request a reappraisal with another appraisal company, the issue might go away. That said, if the bank is already aware of the issue, perhaps they will dig their heels in. It might be cheaper than removing and reinstalling the gates. Though if they need restoration work, you have an excuse to do that project.