Cloth electrical wiring

Hi all – I’m a renter in Williamsburg, BK. I have been in the same apartment, a decent one that i’ve somewhat fixed up the cosmetics of, for 6+ years.
I’ve got a question. My building has the cloth-covered (rubber under cloth) electrical wiring, in my apartment and evidently 3 or 4 of the other 5 units (1-2 of the total 6 have been upgraded to BX). We just had some of it fail in my apartment, and after much prodding the landlord hired an electrican who ran new modern cable to 2/3rd of my apartment.
My question is – how indisputable is it, that in 2017, wiring of the cloth/rubber nature should be replaced, for safety reasons? Someone I was talking to mentioned to me that the building probably wouldn’t even be insurable if the insurer knew of this wiring from the 60s/ (70s) throughout? On the other hand, the owner has refused the suggestions of electricians to upgrade it everywhere. I’m considering getting involved with this issue with a mind for safety and common sense when it comes to the building and it’s occupants, but i wanted to hear the community’s opinion on clot h wiring, and what level of concern it should generate. I will mention, the wire seemed to recently fail in one part of my apartment, causing the need to re-wire all but the kitchen. the landlord has an ethos of doing absolutely no maintainence and improvements. thanks all!

rajjj1982

in General Discussion 7 years and 7 months ago

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cate | 7 years and 6 months ago

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Knob and tube cloth covered electrical wiring dates from the early 20th century. It is common. It does not necessarily present an immediate hazard. It is not reasonable or practical to ask your landlord to replace it. The only way to get rid of it is to empty the entire building, replace the entire electrical system, and then patch up all the holes. It can’t be done piecemeal and it can’t be done while people are living in the house. So I would forget about it if I were you. Get renter’s insurance. Make sure there are working smoke alarms throughout the building and in your apartment.

slopefarm | 7 years and 6 months ago

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Ouch, bob. Yeah, I don’t touch the electrical either, not as an owner and certainly not as a renter. Like cara said, OP should both get the owner’s permission AND a licensed electrician. But I wouldn’t do that unless i knew I would be in the same unit long term and had a really good relationship with the landlord. Otherwise, either take a xanax about the cloth insulation or move. If anything, I’d be more worried about amperage and surges than the cloth insulation.

cara | 7 years and 6 months ago

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I said a licensed electrician should do it, not the renter!!!

BobMarvin | 7 years and 6 months ago

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Indeed this is NOT something renters should do. I ran a new electric line myself in my first apartment [> 40 years ago, with the landlords permission]. I thought my vast experience of jr. high school electric shop and a summer’s experience as an electrician’s helper, between my freshman and sophomore years of college had prepared me for that–I was wrong. I snaked the BX through the wall just fine, but I didn’t really know what to do with the ground wire. I got the shock of my life taking a shower afterwards, although I was able to fix it afterwards. Now I don’t do anything more complicated than hanging light fixtures and replacing worn-out switches.

cara | 7 years and 6 months ago

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I didn’t say to do it without the landlord’s permission. The tenant would be offering to pay for the upgrade, done by a licensed electrician, of course. Chances are good the landlord would permit it, given the opportunity.

helen40

in General Discussion 7 years and 6 months ago

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As a renter, if your building is up to code, and you don’t like the conditions, wait until your lease expires, then move out. Your altruism is quite noble, though.

@cara – your advice is wrong. Renters don’t have the right to make changes to their apartments without the landlord’s permission. Cosmetic changes are OK. New electrical wiring, NO.

cara | 7 years and 6 months ago

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I know nothing about cloth wiring. It may not be unsafe, but it sure looks scary to me.
Knowing your landlord is unlikely to address your concerns, what I think you should do — depending on how much you love your apartment, how long a lease you have, and how much rent you pay — is call in a licensed electrician, at your own expense, to advise you on the safety of the set-up and, if warranted, do some necessary upgrading.
As a renter, you absolutely shouldn’t have to do it, but if you have a great deal and plan to be there a long time, it might be a sensible move.

resident2 | 7 years and 6 months ago

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I am surprised that the landlord has not rewired the whole building by now. Not because it legaly needs it. But because they could get a building wide rent increase as well as an extra service increase if they added A/C outlets, a lot more circuits and generally upgraded the whole system.
To get it done they could force the tenants to allow their workers in to make all kinds of dust and mess in the process; all the rents will go up in the whole building permanently…. This is one of the problems with rent stabilization, it is extremely difficult to upgrade the building with tenants in occupancy, and the landlord cannot so easily vacate the building even when the building is a fire trap.
So landlords do it as they have vacancies to try to ease the burden for tenants in occupancy, but it is not the best way to re-wire a building.

Guest User | 7 years and 6 months ago

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agree with above, from what i understand the cloth covered wire itself isn’t a problem, it’s just a different type of insulation that became outmoded as rubber and plastic became more common since they were easier to work with. the insurance issue would be if the building’s wiring is “knob and tube.” as long as you’re not having problems in the kitchen you’re probably fine. also, if you were dealing with a legit slumlord you would have found yourself in a sea of extension cords all running to a working outlet. if you’re concerned about the kitchen outlets you could ask the landlord to install GFCI outlets there (if they aren’t already installed) as a fail-safe.

Guest User | 7 years and 6 months ago

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agree with above, from what i understand the cloth covered wire itself isn’t a problem, it’s just a different type of insulation that became outmoded as rubber and plastic became more common since they were easier to work with. the insurance issue would be if the building’s wiring is “knob and tube.” as long as you’re not having problems in the kitchen you’re probably fine. also, if you were dealing with a legit slumlord you would have found yourself in a sea of extension cords all running to a working outlet. if you’re concerned about the kitchen outlets you could ask the landlord to install GFCI outlets there (if they aren’t already installed) as a fail-safe.

Guest User | 7 years and 6 months ago

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agree with above, from what i understand the cloth covered wire itself isn’t a problem, it’s just a different type of insulation that became outmoded as rubber and plastic became more common since they were easier to work with. the insurance issue would be if the building’s wiring is “knob and tube.” as long as you’re not having problems in the kitchen you’re probably fine. also, if you were dealing with a legit slumlord you would have found yourself in a sea of extension cords all running to a working outlet. if you’re concerned about the kitchen outlets you could ask the landlord to install GFCI outlets there (if they aren’t already installed) as a fail-safe.

BobMarvin | 7 years and 7 months ago

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Despite the somewhat unfriendly tone of the answer above I tthink it is correct (even though (I think) the cloth covered wiring is MUCH earlier than the OP says).

mozeeatupu | 7 years and 7 months ago

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That type of wiring is fine. It’s only replaced if a gut rehab or if its not working, done piecemeal.
If you want unneeded, expensive, and disrupting work done for your peace of mind, buy your own place and do it.