Central air vs split units

We are doing a gut renovation of a townhouse in sunset park – 2 floors and a basement and have to decide between central air or split units soon. I’m interested in learning about what yall think – in terms of costs ( short term and long term), resale value, aesthetics, etc. go!

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in General Discussion 9 years and 9 months ago

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pythagoras | 9 years and 8 months ago

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We used to specify mostly high velocity small duct central air, but for the past 6-7 years we’ve been using nothing but the “mini-splits,” mostly Mitsubishi and Fujitsu. They are really compact and so far relatively trouble-free. We are now using them for both heating and cooling, since we insulate and air seal and use high quality windows, we can bring the heating and cooling loads down significantly. We have used both the wall mount and the “ducted ductless” (I kid you not! That’s what they call them!) hung in ceilings, usually over a bathroom or closet.

katdov | 9 years and 8 months ago

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I installed the concealed units by Fujitsu. Turns out a large number of companies make these but Mr. Slim seems the most popular. I got 2 quotes from HVAC guys recommended on here and they were both over $16k (4 zones, Fujitsu, identical configuration). I then contacted the Home Depot and for the same was quoted around $10k. I did end up going with a guy recommended by my builder, who had me pay for the equpment directly to his supplier + $5k for installation for a total of $10315. They work fine, very quiet.

adobera80 | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Have 3 Mitsubishi mini splits in our 2 bedroom 2 bath in a Park Slope row house. They were here when we moved in. The appearance doesn’t bother us much as we have high ceilings and 2 of them are above custom shelving. They work great when they work, but if something goes wrong it sucks. I wont get into the details but in the space of 4 years we have paid at least $6k to fix 3 seperate unrelated issues. The units were about 8 years old. If you have the option do something else. Remember there are no ducts in your ceiling but there is a condensation outlet, if that leaks, which is uncommon, it sucks to fix.

adobera80 | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Have 3 Mitsubishi mini splits in our 2 bedroom 2 bath in a Park Slope row house. They were here when we moved in. The appearance doesn’t bother us much as we have high ceilings and 2 of them are above custom shelving. They work great when they work, but if something goes wrong it sucks. I wont get into the details but in the space of 4 years we have paid at least $6k to fix 3 seperate unrelated issues. The units were about 8 years old. If you have the option do something else. Remember there are no ducts in your ceiling but there is a condensation outlet, if that leaks, which is uncommon, it sucks to fix.

steam_man | 9 years and 8 months ago

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You see, its a trade off. With wall mounted mini-splits you get the ultimate in proper airflow and zoning. They cannot be beat in a typical townhouse layout due to the fact that each room is it’s own zone and the return air is pulled from the same room. The concealed units are a great option but in my experience the returns are rarely pulled from the room they are serving and so the zone is always either under or overcooled. The wall units are also the most economical of all the options.

I have a lot of experience with CityMulti and it is probably the premier system on the market today. Either CityMulti or Mr. Slim have their place and cost must be weighed into the equation, Mr. Slim being the less expensive system.

clintonhillhomes | 9 years and 8 months ago

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it’s called mitsubishi multi city and our contractor installed it. We worked with the brooklyn home company at the time though. They might be able to recommend someone to you.

stickerhappy | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Clintonhillhomes, can you tell us who installed your system? We are interested in something similar. Thanks!

clintonhillhomes | 9 years and 8 months ago

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We did something in the middle here too. We didn’t want the unsightly split units throughout our house. We have this system installed throughout the house (http://www.mitsubishicomfort.com). It gave us the flexibility of cooling or heating whichever room we were in (and we kept our radiators — so we don’t put the forced heat on in the winter) but the systems are small and compact and were completely hidden in closets. We have one duct in one hallway upstairs because we had no other way to get the air to the front of the house. But other than that one (which we don’t mind) there is no trace of the system.

boredatwork | 9 years and 8 months ago

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To answer your question, we were able to install a CAC with no dropped ceilings at all. There is a unit on the roof with the compressor and one air handler that (i believe) cools the top two floors. There is an additional air handler in the cellar that cools the parlor. All of the ducting went down from the roof through closets to the top floor, and up or down through the main load bearing wall (along with the other utilities), then through the closets and out into the rooms.

Like @shouldawouldacoulda in retrospect, we should have gone with three zones.

browngurl

in General Discussion 9 years and 8 months ago

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Wow. You all have given us so much to think about. I just can’t imagine opening up the walls and not going for entrap ac. I can’t let it go. It’s interesting to have learned that it can be done without dropping the ceilings entirely. We like to preserve as much of the height we have. Did I understand that correctly?

We are in Japan and all of the places we’ve stayed through Airbnb have the dcutless split system. It’s only used to cool the sleeping areas so it saves a lot of energy. But it’s hideous looking. One in every

The structural engineer came recommended From the contractor. It seems like he knows what’s going on. He certainly knows more than us. Is there anything we should ask him moving forward?

shouldacouldawoulda | 9 years and 8 months ago

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We went with central air/heat zoned for each floor. It’s bitch when it comes to maintenance contracts (4x) but well worth it when trying to heat and cool the house for just two people. I’m from the south so central air was a non-negotiable for me and con ed was giving away free digital thermostats that you can control via an app so I’m thrilled. I investigated mini ducts but I personally didn’t care for the look.

boredatwork | 9 years and 8 months ago

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We undertook a similar renovation several years ago. We left the hot water radiators and made a (relatively) last minute decision to install central AC. Given that the walls were all open, it was the time to do it; we are happy with the results.

Mini-splits were not part of our conversation. Our architect and contractor and AC subcontractor worked hand in glove to ensure a great installation. The architect was a stickler for “NO SOFFITS” so all ducting is enclosed in walls or closet spaces. My personal opinion is that the mini-splits with units on walls of each room is ugly; like a window ac, but in the middle of the room. As my mother used to say “its not my taste.”

I am not sure about efficiency of CAC vs. other systems. We installed a two zone system: one for the parlor and another for the two sleeping floors. If I had to do it again, I would opt for three zones. Would have cost more, but now we have to pay to cool the “kids” floor when they are not in the house.

slopefarm | 9 years and 8 months ago

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“Pitch” is an overstatement. there are definitely things I wish i had known and done differently with our system. It is not a perfect solution but it can be a good one. if done right and thoughtfully. Have your architect actively involved in planning the system.

figtree | 9 years and 8 months ago

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I will second slopefarm’s pitch for the high velocity mini duct systems. I’m currently having a Unico system installed right now and I’m very happy. First, you don’t lose space. The ducts are small and if you plan it out well your rooms will retain their original shape (no dropped ceilings, etc). Yes it is a bit noisier than conventional central A/C, but if it is installed properly it mostly just sounds like you have a small fan on in the room (in the second fl bedrooms I can’t really hear it at all). I honestly do not understand why people go for the split system when this is an option. But I would highly suggest doing as much research as possible and making sure you really trust the HVAC guy to do the engineering properly. As I said, when done correctly this system is amazing, but I’ve heard stories of people being disappointed because the system was not planned properly. I really feel that the split systems are quite ugly and will age terribly (dating y our home to this particular period in renovation time). Unless you can hide the units in closets or something.

slopefarm | 9 years and 8 months ago

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We have mini duct central A/C, and did not replace our old steam radiator heating. Miniduct (Unico) is central, not a split, but the ducts are small, so fewer soffets. OTOH, can be a bit noisy depending on where air handlers are placed. Perhaps worth looking into for your situation.

PS Brownstoner, can you rotate the befuddled average Joe photo for your stories linking forum queries? It would be nice to see a more representative and diverse sampling of befuddled Brooklyn homeowners portrayed in these stories. .

EJR | 9 years and 8 months ago

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My personal opinion is that an unobtrusive central air system would be the best option, to the extent it can be installed without unsightly ductwork. If that is not an option then I would do mini-splits.

browngurl

in General Discussion 9 years and 8 months ago

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the plan, currently, is to put the split units in and use the existing radiators . exceot for our friednk who is also a contractor but not the one we are using, is insisting that we use the split units . my thoughts are if we are opening up the walls why not? my wife argues tha we would get more ceiling . architect says its more nergy efficient. real estate agent says resale value not impacted . i just dont know

JorgeF | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Mini Split units are more efficient. You can set every room individually. So you can choose what temp for each room and not run heat ac in certain rooms that are not used as often. No question the mini splits are more efficient in the long run. I am an architect we are using the mini splits more and more. They are becoming increasingly common. Read this article from the Department Of Energy on Mini Splits.
http://energy.gov/energysaver/ductless-mini-split-heat-pumps

Augustiner | 9 years and 8 months ago

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Mini splits and hydronic radiators or radiant floor heating are the way to go if you can afford it. Forced air is utter nonsense unless you retrofit an existing system to save money.