Bushwick 2 family - rear decks width shortened before closing date.

We are in contract on a 2-family in Bushwick. It’s a gut-reno job. The closing has been pushed so many times, we’re now heading into our 4th rate lock extension. It’s been an arduous journey to get to where we are and still no closing date in sight. Upon a recent visit to the home, we noticed the brand new deck that ran the width of the property off the kitchen on the main floor, has had 3ft. taken off either side. That’s cllose to 90st ft. removed from the deck and we were never told about it. Not to mention the fix is shotty construction. Not only does it change the look of the exterior, lessen the square footage, but it also brings the staircase directly into the garden now. Not off to one side. The developer/seller has been dishonest most of the way through the purchasing process. We are being told the change had to happen to pass inspection due to its wooden construction. You can’t have wooden decks run to either side of your property line. We’ve l ooked at so many of these 2 family gut reno’s in Bushwick/Bed-Stuy. They all have this type of deck of the main floor. My question is, does anyone have any experience with this?

Many thanks,
Whalien

whalien

in General Discussion 6 years and 10 months ago

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whalien | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Thanks for all the stellar advice. This has been incredibly helpful. We are meeting at the home this evening for a final inspection, walk-through, and to generate a punchlist. We understand the situation with the deck was an oversight and willing to cut them a break.
Didn’t have much of a choice and according to our lawyer, there’s not much we can do about the loss of space from the renovation. It’s all the rate lock extensions that hurt the most. We were granted a CEMA by the seller, which is rare, but now all the rate-lock extensions have voided that benefit.

We were also told the home was spray foamed, but are having a very hard time finding evidence of that. Hoping for a receipt of service. Another big issue is the front hatch to the basement. There’s a 1/2″ gap where the doors meet and the renovation they did to the facade hinders the doors from opening more than 3 inches. It’s a horrible design flaw. This has to be fixed.

The punchlist is going to be big and they’ll fight us on a lot of it. I guess if we stay the course, we’ll have to be sure the y leave significant money in escrow.

Lastly, isn’t there some type of home warranty for “new construction”, which is what these flips are considered?

Guest User | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Sorry if I missed this earlier, but have you requested drawings on file for the property from the DOB records office? You do not need to be a professional or expeditor to do so.

alterboy | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Sorry to read that you are in a difficult spot. Unfortunately, if all the decks you’ve seen elsewhere in Bushwick/Bed-Stuy are also wood property-to-property line then they are all illegal. Your seller was correct in removing 3 feet from each side to pass inspection and to comply with code. Regarding your worries about the rest of the work: if the seller has been dishonest about other things it is possible that he or she was dishonest about the quality of the work and what is behind the walls. I would spend some time on the Department of Buildings website, or confer with an architect, to make sure everything was filed properly — and “signed off”! Even so, I would see what I could about a major price concession due to the lengthy and frustrating closing process which does not seem to be your fault at all. Otherwise, it sounds like you may have to leave a lot of money on the table. Sometimes though, if you do arrive at closing any time soon, you have to think hard about whether you would rather leave money on the table verses having significant buyer’s remorse. Only you can know how you might feel. Good luck and hope it works out for the best.

greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Agreed — if whalien is able to get a similar nice concession or other acceptable agreement that he/his fam and his attorney can live with then more power to them.

It’s all up to the tolerance of OP — I just want to let him know that even if he walks (after careful consult with atty of course), and even if he feels like there will never ever be another home out there for them in their price range, there is hope, there WILL be another home. We totally understand where he is — we’ve been there.

slopefarm | 6 years and 10 months ago

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golden, we were actually in something similar to the OP’s boat about 14 years ago. We ended up in litigation because we were unwilling to walk away in default (ie forfeit 10% deposit) and unwilling to take the house in the state the flipper wanted to give it to us in after a ridiculously fraudulent renovation. So while walking may be the right approach, it depends what consequences the OP is willing to bear.

We ended up settling for a big price concession so we could undo the harm and renovate ourselves. I still do not know whether this was the better choice or if we should have walked quickly and left serious money on the table. If you want to insist on getting your deposit back, it may be a contentious move and not easily completed, and it may be that you lose some time before you are in a position to buy something else.

greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago

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I think many of us are saying what we are saying out of experience and concern, either through direct personal experience or through close friends, and absolute understanding of where whalien is in this. A home is a dream and we get it. This process is a nightmare.

Many of us have horror stories of our own personal Brooklyn house hunts. Ours was almost THREE years (!!) where we got priced out of three different neighborhoods in rapid succession, each time getting our hopes up then absolutely crushed–repeatedly and often as homes that started in our price range quickly started going for multitudes higher than what we could afford, or went to ALL ca$h buyers). That’s absolute misery!

Then when you do find that home, even your average closing process is a total crapshow rollercoaster where hopes are raised then dashed again, and just when it finally seems like you will close, everything falls apart again. Ours took months and legal threats.

So yes, it is not an easy decision, but the process that whalien has been through already sounds like it is leaps and bounds a bove the usual snags on the closing process. Even more reason to be wary than merely purchasing a flip.

My advice based on my own experience and those of close friends (that it sounds like he should be able to walk legally at this point) still stands and he should at least explore his options with his attorney. We’ve all been there — we get it — this process stinks and is heartbreaking.

slopefarm | 6 years and 10 months ago

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OK, now that you have done the ACRIS work, go on BIS, the DOB website and look up the property. What is filed, what isn’t, any violations, complaint, etc.

It sounds like you are buying from the flipper based on a scope of work to be completed. What are the closing conditions they have to meet? How does that compare with what is filed? If the work isn’t filed, is that consistent with your contract?

One thing you could do is insist on a walk-through and bring a GC, architect, or engineer with you and see what you can learn about the quality or not of the workmanship and anything done improperly.

It is easy to tell someone to walk away, and that may be the right advice, but that isn’t an easy decision and it is worth getting your bearings on the consequences of doing it, first. In particular, you want to figure out what your leverage is in the situation.

greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Ok I get you — agreed — we have had some doozies in our home for sure — as def happens in houses over 100 years old in this town!

And I realized only after where I cut off the name how it would seem. Attempt at being silly = FAIL.

Guest User | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Right, my ethnic name is difficult to spell so people get lazy. I must not have been clear in my previous post. I am certainly not disparaging the worth of a good renovation – otherwise I would not be in this business. I was simply trying to say it is not unusual to find shoddy work (i.e. amateur work, work not complying with code) in these old townhouses, whether it be old or new work.

greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago

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btw @re_mcdowellespinosa, I meant the etc tweak to your username as a lighthearted, jaunty play on a long username but I could see how it would come across as a jerk move — no jerk move intended!

greenworks | 6 years and 10 months ago

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I could not disagree more with re_mcdowelletc for several reasons but here’s the big one:

I’m sure your client paid significantly less than he/she would have paid for a house that was “done.” Any renos and fixes your client is paying now are on top of a reduced price and will (generally speaking) only add value, probably more value than the actual cost of the fixes and renos.

I don’t know how to help your client if they paid the same amount for a fixer upper than a “done” house — that’s above my pay grade.

They will NOT be paying for those fixes on top of what they already paid — a grossly overinflated sum for a “done” house.

For example, we paid significantly less than a flip (in our nabe the diff was ~100-250k) for a house that was in solid condition but just had a ton of cosmetic work to do — or so we thought. Then we uncovered some of what you refer to as “old hack” work — lamp cords hidden behind beadboard to connect fixtures, etc etc.

But even after fixing a lot of this weirdo stuff, we’re still FAR ahead of our friends who purchased a single fam for 2 00k more than us and then had to spend 150k fixing things. YIKES!!!

Also, since we control the work, WE know the issues. My friends are constantly surprised by the crap they’re finding even a couple of years into it — just when they thought they were done . . .

And I’m talking “have to move out of the house” level fixes for them.

Guest User | 6 years and 10 months ago

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I am working on a client’s renovation on a 1900’s row house Brooklyn and discovering a lot of very poorly work done on the house by previous owners in the last 100 years – very typical of these houses. It is probably true this flip of yours is a hack job, but it’s more likely you’ll run into this kind of work even if you restarted your search. At least in your case it’s a new hack job. Just offering another perspective on things… it’s difficult to escape poor construction unless you pay good money for it. I am assuming (or hope) that you are not paying top $ for this property.

whalien | 6 years and 10 months ago

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I figured out who the owners/developers are. Not having much luck investigating them.

whalien | 6 years and 10 months ago

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@Coolguyjones, what gives you that idea?

Guest User | 6 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "198904"

Jefferson Ave?

Guest User | 6 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "197911"

You can search other properties they’ve developed and also look up any possible lawsuits against them in State Civil Court records online.

whalien | 6 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
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Developer is in Great Neck.

whalien | 6 years and 10 months ago

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Yeah, not exactly nice people to deal with. Evasive and dishonest. Dug into the ACRIS site and researching these folks now.

Guest User | 6 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "197911"

Start with ACRIS, looking up by address. Go into the documents (deed and mortgages) and you’ll see who the owner or “owner’s officer” is, then google them. Also look at DOB filings, which will show who the applicant contractor is. These guys are often part of the LLC. As I said, I don’t want to mention any names, but this MO is typical of some really bad people I’ve been dealing with next door to me, as a matter of fact.