Baby bedroom directly over boiler room?

Our baby’s bedroom is directly over the boiler room- the gas boiler and hot water heaters are basically located 5’ down right under his crib in the basement.
We obviously have a CO2 and smoke monitor in his room and one outside the boiler room but is this dangerous?
I assume there are always some small amounts of co2 that don’t go up the flue and just wondering if anything more should be done from a safety standpoint.
Thanks for any suggestions.

stickerhappy

in General Discussion 5 years and 6 months ago

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nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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On this topic, I suggest you browse throught the results of a Goggle search for “government studies on carbon monoxide in the home” for reputable information—including the various sources of CO gas in the home, as well as the possible effects of persistant lower grade exposure from sources such gas stoves, cigarettte smoke, burning incense, and of course boilers and outside car exhaust fumes. We try to close off our homes from outdoor bad air sources, ony to seal in the indoor ones. Persistant low grade CO sources are likely a more widespread problem than we realize, with not only very young and elderly most at risk, but especially the developing fetus in the womb.
I also urge you to check out the excellent WebMD online article entitled “Giving your baby the best start” for valuable tips on other potential hazards for babies in the home environment (many of whch apply not to the very young). Consumer Reports haa also done valuable research along similar lines with their web articles on PFAS in the home.

hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago

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True only of a direct vent boiler, or conceivably a power vented boiler, which does not appear to be what this is. Based on the photos, this building looks like an old law tenement, so most likely the op only has one apt and would have to get buy in from the board to work on the boiler. Tought situation to be in.

Master Plvmber | 5 years and 6 months ago

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> @stevecym
> keep in mind that modern boilers are fed by forced air (a blower) and not just stack effect and heat in a flue

Not true. What are you talking about?

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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and something else: even when that boiler is not running, it is pulling fresh air in through that penetration as a result of “stack effect”. this occurs continually and the taller the building the more air will move through there and in through the boiler and out through the flue.

sorry to those folks who do not like that i make numerous posts, but this is something i thought of as i was working.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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and that void around that flue – where you see light daylight. that is a good thing: it means when this thing fires, it can pull fresh air in.

if this is in a boiler room, that cardboard box should not the there. been there with the fire inspector in commercial buildings.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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and the first thing i would ask is, is this done to code? that’s a good start. i don’t know the answer.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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ok, so if we really want to get technical here and worry about the pieces of this, keep in mind that modern boilers are fed by forced air (a blower) and not just stack effect and heat in a flue, so any joint in that flue line is suspect when that thing is operating. if you were really worried, i would get a gas detector or meter and put it down there and see what happens when it is operating. as i said the other day, i bought an oxygen meter (cheap) and will use it. if i see wild swings on the meter, i will either fix the issue or buy a more expensive meter or consult a pro, paid if necessary. (and i bought such a device as we have another heater here i am worried about, not our boiler).

to me, that is a long run. keep in mind what i said when we were first on here, we had a flue fire and that made me real nervous; we turn our boiler off at night now because of that incident. i know, it sounds OTT. (you should not have that worry with gas; our oil equipment was dirty).

if i were working in a commercial building and we had a reason for concern, if peopl e were sleeping over this, i might consult an engineer. not to over alarm you, but keep in mind how paid professionals think; they worry about getting sued. nothing wrong with that level of caution when your family is involved. keep in mind what someone said about low level but persistent CO2.

look at test instruments on line. some of this stuff is cheap; read what they will and won’t pick up. $75 can buy you peace of mind.

stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago

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One more photo of boiler vent duct running out of building over to connect to chimney, as seen looking down at airshaft from baby’s room… [40AA6106-A622-4108-8102-628CA3E7D6C6](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:KEUl:40aa6106a62241088102628ca3e7d6c6.jpeg.jpg)

stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago

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OP back here with more info and a diagram and photos attached (thanks for all the helpful info already shared)

So the kids room is directly above the boiler room in diagram.
It is vented in what I can only imagine is an atypical way…
The boiler is vented via a stainless steel duct that runs out the exterior wall of the building (see photo) and spans across an airshaft (see other photo looking down airshaft from roof)) to a brick chimney with terra cotta liner (I think) where it runs up to the roof.
My guess is at some point the boiler had to be moved to a spot in basement where it could have its own room and that’s why it was moved away from its original spot which was right next to that chimney.
The water heaters also vent to that same duct and connect to boiler duct before going outside.
Any thoughts on this set up?
Thank you all! [111153DE-C1D3-4B40-9DA7-7F1215096F0D](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:Elgo:111153dec1d34b409da77f1215096f0d.jpeg.jpg) [E23BA4A0-9DDB-48CC-83CF-DFBEC884BF3B](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:GEWB:e23ba4a09ddb48cc83cfdfbec884bf3b.jpeg.jpg) [47E67C7B-410B-4607-BFFE-E81205360E7A](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:I2uH:47e67c7b410b4607bffee81205360e7a.jpeg.jpg)

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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keep in mind what master plumber said about the most of the CO2 detectors on the market. it sounds like the bulk of them – meaning the $35 unit I own – are not sensitive enough to react to lower levels of this stuff. and someone above said the persistent low levels are a health issue (and my guess a bad one for a baby). they may not sound until you are drowning in the stuff. so the op and others need sort of higher end detection equipment with meters as well so they can not only rely on the alarm but see a read out as to if there is a persistent low level problem in the house. unbandad mentioned a host of gases that come out in the exhaust, too numerous to track, so i suggested perhaps an oxygen meter and low oxygen alarm as those gases work to displace oxygen though if anyone wants to go that route (that is the route i am taking) this takes more research as i am not qualified to say that-

hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago

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I’m sorry to hear that story Kris, and I’m so glad you were able to figure this out and address it. In my opinion, at this point if you have a masonry chimney that you’re venting a boiler into, a liner should be installed. It won’t impress guests(unless I visit), or raise the home value, but come on.

Now if you have steam heat, and your bedrooms are on the garden level, and you’ve chosen to accept this situation, perhaps some things you might consider doing to mitigate the problem:

1. Line chimney.
2. Install CO detectors in boiler room and bedroom. Connect them if possible and interlock to boiler.
3. Service boiler and hot water heater annually.
4. Install an HRV fresh air unit and duct it into the bedrooms you are concerned about.
5. Seal the ceiling of the boiler room, ideally the entire cellar. Sheetrock is probably as good as anything for this, but I don’t know. It won’t really stop air from coming through, but it might help spread it out. This is just speculation.
6. Ensure you have a fresh air duct in the cellar or boiler room that complies with the fuel gas co de and mechanical code.
7. Power vent the boiler.
8. Inspect and clean the flue regularly.
9. Have a professional determine if the flue is correctly sized for your appliances, and the developed length of the chimney.
10. Check on the boiler from time to time, and look and listen and smell for changes and investigate them. Look for evidence of backdrafting or water leaks.
11. Learn a little about boilers and the venting of combustion appliances and how your system works so you’ll have a better sense of what to watch out for, and what risks you are exposed to.
12. Calling a pro is good advice, but in my opinion you really have to be careful. Pros vary a lot in quality and ability, and won’t be sleeping in that house. I bet a lot of pros will hook up a boiler to an unlined masonry chimney no questions asked. They would say they just replaced what was their, and the chimney wasn’t part of their job. So don’t assume that because you have a CO detector and plumber has worked on your boiler that everything is good.
13. When upgrading the boiler, assess whether a smaller boiler might be correct for your heating load. It probably is for most folks, and I’m guessing the smaller burner will probably vent better, although you don’t want the flu to big for the boiler spec either. It’s probably most important that the flue and boiler are in spec for eachother. A smaller burner will also increase the length of your heating cycles and probably make it easier to balance the system, but there may be disagreement on that.

If you have a hot water boiler, consider upgrading to a direct vent system and or relocating the boiler.

If everything is working properly, in theory it should be ok, but I think if everyone knew how it worked they would be more nervous about it.

nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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In a situation like this it is vital to have electrician hard-wired Carbon Monoxide detectors with battery backup in case of power failure. Some models are definitely more sensitive than others , and the ones that provide both a current and a peak past reading are also preferable to get a better grasp of the overall envoronment.
I have read studies where even a constant lower level of CO (not enough to trigger an alarm) may have adverse health consequences oe efects, even for adults. It might be wise to do some Google reasearch on the effects of Carbon Monoxide at lower levels and to monitor those levels carefully, including whe you are using nearby unvented gas stoves. It’s Winter, and houses are often seald up tight.

nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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In a situation like this it is vital to have electrician hard-wired Carbon Monoxide detectors with battery backup in case of power failure. Some models are definitely more sensitive than others , and the ones that provide both a current and a peak past reading are also preferable to get a better grasp of the overall envoronment.
I have read studies where even a constant lower level of CO (not enough to trigger an alarm) may have adverse health consequences oe efects, even for adults. It might be wise to do some Google reasearch on the effects of Carbon Monoxide at lower levels and to monitor those levels carefully, including whe you are using nearby unvented gas stoves. It’s Winter, and houses are often seald up tight.

nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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I find the comment from Kris about old cracked clay chimney lining especially relevant for old multi-family/ multi-story buildings in areas like Brooklyn. Heck, how does one even go about something like relining an old multi-story chimney if neceassary. Also it troubles me to see politicians push for the legalization of basement apartments , when who knows what the heath risks from gas boiles may entail?
Also Kris, what kind of “symptoms” wee you experiencing?

nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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I find the comment from Kris about old cracked clay chimney lining especially relevant for old multi-family/ multi-story buildings in areas like Brooklyn. Heck, how does one even go about something like relining an old multi-story chimney if neceassary. Also it troubles me to see politicians push for the legalization of basement apartments , when who knows what the heath risks from gas boiles may entail?
Also Kris, what kind of “symptoms” wee you experiencing?

rhlvizmdcumfzd | 5 years and 6 months ago

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IS YOUR CHIMNEY PROPERLY LINED AND VENTET OUT? So, this was my situation, my room was directly above the hot water boilers and furnace. Our old clay lining was cracked and we had holes in our chimney so I am fairly certain this was why I was getting sick. We had the chimney lined and made sure venting was happening…health is improving.

rhlvizmdcumfzd | 5 years and 6 months ago

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IS YOUR CHIMNEY PROPERLY LINED AND VENTET OUT? So, this was my situation, my room was directly above the hot water boilers and furnace. Our old clay lining was cracked and we had holes in our chimney so I am fairly certain this was why I was getting sick. We had the chimney lined and made sure venting was happening…health is improving.

nednedx

in General Discussion 5 years and 6 months ago

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Great thread! Very useful information

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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OP, yesterday, after urbanded listed the various gases that can show up in the exhaust, i went on line and looked. carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide are two of them and if i recall what i read, monoxide is caused by incomplete combustion of fuel (while dioxide occurs either way). Incomplete combustion can be caused by improperly maintained equipment but also from not having enough fresh air. so to what chris petri is saying, a little ventilation is good. (fyi: in a building i once worked, there was a massive shutter vent that opened when the boiler fired).

my basement is so drafty that i don’t have a window open, but if it was well sealed i would probably open one a crack. you know, its been said that all this sealing out of every draft has not been a healthy thing either.