Architect to Change Building Classification
Any recommendations for an architect who can help us change our building classification? We were told we need to have an architect do drawings. The house is classified as a 3-family (C0) and we are looking to have it classified as a 2-family. We want to do a cost/benefit analysis on whether to do the new “152” inspection when we would not legally qualify as a 3-family other than DOB/DOF classification to the contrary.
If you want details: We have a two-story, two-family house in Brooklyn and I don’t think there is any way this could ever have been a legal 3. (Prior owners were popped for having an illegal basement apartment.) We don’t know why it was categorized as a 3 family but it made no difference to the bank and there was no incentive to change the classification until now. Our property taxes are comparable to our neighbors who have identical houses but are classified as B1-2 Family. Thanks.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
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Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago
You can get this corrected directly with DOF – it’s a simple form after which I assume they will inspect and then change it. But depends on what your end game is… is it get it corrected at the DOF or get a C of O?
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
The DOF records could maybe sometimes be mentioned as support for your claim of historical use, but are not sufficient as the primary evidence. The I-card is the best evidence, but if that doesn’t exist, other evidence such as architectural plans, utility records, real estate ads from old newspapers, photographs, or other similar compelling evidence is what they’re looking for. This would have been a little more practical 30 or 40 years ago when someone might remember what was going on in 1938 in the neighborhood, but I’d say now it’s more similar to researching the buildings use in 1885. But who knows, maybe you could find someone 85 who remembers growing up in one of the apts.
Guest User | 4 years and 3 months ago
If there is no C of O will DOB talk to DOF to confirm when you are getting a new C of O? The two don’t seem to talk other than permit costs are passed on to the DOF.
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
It’s a better situation, if the documents support the configuration you have, but in could lead to an inspection, so you probably need to do some research and see if you can withstand an inspection, and your historic use is adaquately documented before getting started, and whether you need the LNO.
Putnamdenizen | 4 years and 3 months ago
What about a situation of a house currently used as two family without a c of o, but a department of finance has it as 3 family? Does trying to get a letter of no objection from DOB lead down the same dangerous road? Asking for a friend…
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
I feel it’s actually important to make another remark here. You seem like you believe that you have a 2-family, so changing the certificate of occupancy to a 2 family should not be a big deal. You need to know that this is not the case. Getting a CO issued is a huge deal, especially on an old building, and especially in the last 5 years. You have a 2-family in a building that has a 3-family CO, so already your building is in violation because the layout does not match what is approved at DOB. Also, whoever changed the use from a 3 fam to a 2 fam did not file the paperwork, and probably did not do the combination to code. Even if they tried to, the code requires inspections of certain things before the walls are closed. And on top of that, if the work was done in say 1995, even if codes were followed, they are more stringent now, and there would be no grandfathering of work, such as plumbing, done illegally in 1995.
And the cherry on top is that even if everything is pretty good, the practical fact is that the DOB is set up to get you when you need a permit or CofO. Yo u’d almost be better off if the work in your building was bad, because then you’d be fixing stuff that was poor quality anyway. But they will find things wrong, and if the work was done well, they will look harder and find details for you to fix and that may be even more difficult to comply with. You’ll have to file a permit application, hire licensed plumbers, electricians, and contractors, and engineers to fix. And once you start, there’s no turning back. Inspectors will be entering your building and potentially noticing things that need fixing. The codes will rarely be interpreted in a favorable way for you, so if you’re speculating whether something complies, imagine you were trying to demonstrate that it needed an upgrade, and assume that’s what the inspectors will say. Appealing any decision by the inspectors will end up costing thousands, even if you are right, and rarely do people win.
Augustiner | 4 years and 3 months ago
Don’t change c of o. Just keep as is.
hkapstein | 4 years and 3 months ago
Without knowing the details, I’m going to caution you that even exploring this change with DOB could expose you to vastly more expenses than the 152 would ever trigger. Like 6 figure type expenses. The reason is that getting a new certificate of occupancy will require a lot of things be made compatible wih newer codes than when your old CO was issued. The architect and permits alone would cost easily 5k probably more, which would cover the 152 inspection for years. But you might need sprinklers, or to change your layout in some way, or line chimneys, or legalize extensions. There may be details here I don’t know, but I’d keep my mouth shut and just do the inspection. Let’s see what others think.
thompson.molly99 | 4 years and 4 months ago
have a similar issue, property is legal 2 – no hpd registration. Got the 152 mail..