Brownstone facade replacement - now or later? Looking for an expert.
Hi there, long time listener, first-time caller.
When we purchased our three-story brownstone in March 2015, our inspector told us that we would need to have the facade redone at some point in the next five years. As I have been sweeping up more and more brownstone dust of late, I decided it was high-time to get some estimates. Going with the companies I have seen recommended on these boards, I received quotes ranging from $35K to $60K.
Before parting with that kind of money, I’d like to get someone who knows more than I do (next to nothing) and has no vested interested in my completing the work (like the contractors who came by) to take a look and tell me how long I have until serious problems come with the crumbling facade.
Can anyone recommend an inspector or another type of brownstone expert who will come do an assessment on the facade? Thanks for your thoughts.
Eli
Guest User | 7 years and 2 months ago
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21 replies
justinromeu26 | 1 year and 10 months ago
not sure how helpful this is, but booting this up-
stuyheights | 7 years and 2 months ago
No-permits, yes. So were all of my steps until I made him do them all over again.
stuyheights | 7 years and 2 months ago
When the scratch coat was finished, 1/2 of the total amount was due. When the building was Brownstoned, the other half was due. He has the half for the scratch coat and that is what was done.
daveinbedstuy | 7 years and 2 months ago
Ughhhh, when are people going to learn to withhold final payments until the job is finished???
yudashasom | 7 years and 2 months ago
@just5581, are you saying the scratch coat lines are uneven??
stuyheights | 7 years and 2 months ago
Hopefully the end product is as good as I have heard but as of now, I am skeptical. Kevin personally has not done any of the work on my house. All of his “guys” have done it with little to no supervision. He left bags of sand, garbage, buckets and netting all over my house. It looks horrible and unprofessional. I have called him numerous times (he has been paid in full up to this point) and never picks up and doesn’t respond to texts. He finally picked up about a week ago. I expressed how disappointed I am that the job site was left in that condition and to please clean it up. He said “I paid someone to go there and take care of it”. Its been over a week and its still a mess. I called again since then and he did not pick up and texted again with no reply either. You would think as a business owner (with a pick up truck) you would swing by and clean it up yourself to have a happy customer. Its been months now.
RobertGMarvin
in Exteriors 7 years and 2 months ago
I’m surprised to read that. Kevin Morgan has done many brownstone facades in PLG, , where I live, including the houses on either side of mine, and I’ve been favorably impressed with his work. He’s also done some excellent work for me, although nothing as extensive as full brownstone restoration,[since my house is brick and limestone].
stuyheights | 7 years and 2 months ago
Donalds business was taken over by his son Kevin. I hired them to do my facade and I must say, I am not impressed. The scratch coat was done very quickly and sloppy. The lines they left will all need to be straightened out prior to the final coat and they left garbage and material everywhere.
NeoGrec | 7 years and 2 months ago
Sorry to hear that. Donald did a great job for us and for 2 neighbors.
NeoGrec | 7 years and 2 months ago
Malek is at the high end. We paid $27k for our 3-story house about 5 years ago. The job was done by Donald Morgan: 646-797-1053. He’s an old-school craftsman who runs a small, family business and is much less expensive than some of the big players.
murph | 7 years and 2 months ago
Thanks for the info on Malek. Best in business here. I dealt with Abdul. No complaints after sixteen years.
Regarding Landmarks, Look at Buildings website. Your address profile will have a big red “L” at the top if the building is landmarked. If not you are free to do anything you want with what is your property. Not that I’m suggesting going outside the envelope. Go to Municipal Records(Chambers Street) and order a copy of your “Tax Photo”($15?). It will show you what the facade looked like around 1940(survey was done back then for tax purposes). You can see exactly what the original looked like. Follow its details(doors, windows, facade, cornice) and you can’t go wrong. Do it before landmarking comes around, save a lot of money and frustration in doing what you want. Once done they have nothing to say.
BKALLDAY | 7 years and 2 months ago
Hello,
We did our 4 story about 15 years ago and paid about 39K. However the guy was struggling and he never acid washed the finished product so our b’stone looks splotchy in some places and we seem to have a foundation problem so some sections of the restored newel on the front step has pulled away.
Know that Brownstone cement is actually very porous and over time it disintigrates and that is why you have the dust. The bigger problem is any water through snow or rains seeps behind the facade and then you have water (and possibly) mold screwing up the inside walls, around windows, doors, etc). If you put insulation between the interior walls and exterior brick then the problem gets bigger and more expensive.
What you should first do is find out if you live in a Landmarks designated neighborhood and then contact Landmarks. You would hate to start work only to have them come by see you are doing it without their ok and then put a lien on your property and I am hearing these days the fines are hefty. They can also (at least they did back then) give you a list of cont ractors who know what they are doing and you can just work off the list. By no means are these the cheapest guys in town and NY is popping so expect sticker shock. Landmarks used to offer small grants to assist in such works (brownstone/window repairs) and you pay them back at wonderful interest rates). You should see if they still offer that.
The other thing I would strong suggest is replacing or having a very good repair done of the frieze at the top of the house. Nowadays many companies are making them out of an industrial styrofoam which beats dealing with shitty wood that peels. You want to do this because you can do all the work you want on the brownstone but if water gets in from the top it will still invade and seep down behind the b’stone and eat away from the inside out. If you do have to repair the frieze or frettework at top then make sure you have a roofer come and roll new paper all the way to the re-done frieze to create a good seal.
A good company should give you a comprehensive idea of how they will tackle the work. They should protect your neighbors and of course clean up thoroughly after themselves. Anyone who tells you they will do the work in 30 degree weather you should run from. I understand the work is best done when the temps are consistently above 50 degrees. Also be sure they will remove the moldings around your windows and put new brownstone right up under before returning the trim and caulking your windows. It is a process but it is worth it. My last suggesting is remember we live in NYC and we do have freeze and thaw cycles so where-ever metal meets stone will present a problem. Ask how they will tackle that.
Good luck, it will be beautiful when it is done.
BTW – Malek Construction has done a ton of work around NY but know that the family was fighting about 10 years and the company split. The B Crew (still has Malek on it’s truck and gets a lot of work in NY but the older brother (original Malek) is the one who knows his stuff. The “B” crew brother will lie because he knows this.
murph | 7 years and 2 months ago
Abdul is your man.
Looks like your facade has been done before but even a good job won’t last 20-25 years. That may be the case here. It’s worth spending the money. Don’t go for the paint–it won’t last. I was lucky and went for the premium job. It cost $25,000 fifteen years back and it’s still good. I inspired others on my block to invest in it as well.
Ride around Brownstone Brooklyn and see who’s having it done now. No rush. The good people are busy and you will just have to wait.
Don’t replace the windows until the stone work is done.
resident2 | 7 years and 2 months ago
If you have more & more flakes falling and need to be sweeping more, it is time to start serious planning to restore the facade. Not only for the protection of your house from water damage etc but also from your liability.
If someone does get hurt from falling debret, and you may not be able to see how bad it is getting, your insurance company may well not pay out, due to your negligence.
It also takes decent contractors to get you into there schedule. You do not want to have to go with the one that can start “this week”. The best contractors are booked months in advance.
alterboy | 7 years and 2 months ago
It seems that you’ve already had an independent inspector of sorts when you bought your house and his assessment was that you’d need to re-do your facade within 5 years or so of your purchase. At this point, signs that water is getting in to your facade — wet areas that remain well after a rain, or bulging of areas of the facade, portions of brownstone that are being pushed out of alignment, crumbly or dusty brownstone — mean that the time has come to do some repair work. A full facade repair can easily be north of $35,000. I have had good experience with Metro Waterproofing (917-731-4388, 718-521-1435) and Malek (718-919-7000, 718-453-6259) and Valoroso (718-531-2463) but haven’t used Valoroso. You don’t need to do all of the facade at once if you only want to do exactly where you think water is entering and your are very price sensitive. On the other hand, the best job and the way to not have to think about it again is to do the entire thing at once. I have seen people patch and then paint the entire facade if that is an option for you.
schmu | 7 years and 2 months ago
We had afna construction do ours and they were reasonably priced. There is another company I see around doing brownstone work. I think the name is Malik. We patched.
Augustiner | 7 years and 2 months ago
You can also do a patch and paint job for 5-8.000 – if done right that holds up a while too
camp6ell | 7 years and 2 months ago
Ask your neighbors. Walk the neighborhood and for sure you’ll see some being done come the spring, so ask those contractors and the homeowners. Everyone loves talking about their house and their experience with a contractor, so don’t be shy.
yudashasom | 7 years and 2 months ago
If you have cracks and sections that have broken off, you have water penetration. The longer that happens, the more damage you will have, and it will cost you more to repair. Especially with ornate sections of the facade that if lost or comprised, will cost you a lot to replicate.