removing a wall on parlor floor?

We did this twelve years ago. Were told the wall (parallel to the party walls) was indeed load bearing. We used an architect and structural engineer. GC installed a horizontal steel beam and a vertical lally (lolly?) post that went all the way down into the cellar where it was set in concrete. The only problem we encountered was that we tiled the bathroom floor above about 3-4 weeks after the wall was removed. That was clearly too soon and we got a 6ft crack in the new limestone floor. I’ve never tried to repair it (it’s hidden by a bath mat) and I’ve wondered if it would only return because there’s inherent instability in that floor. Does anyone have an opinion about whether it’s worth trying to fix?

NeoGrec

in Construction 13 years and 1 month ago

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berniceshola | 13 years and 1 month ago

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I’d love to hear from anyone who has had experience removing a load-bearing wall between a rear parlor and side room. Experiences? Recommendations? Costs? Any advice welcome.

skarns | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Are you sure the wall is load bearing?  What makes you think so?  Often the floor joists above run from party wall to party wall and room divisions are not load bearing.  There are, of course, exceptions.     If the wall is in fact load bearing, you’ll most likely need to hire a structural engineer to file for structural steel at least and depending on the configuration may need to run columns down to the basement or cellar where new foundations will need to be poured.

skarns | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Not necessarily load bearing because of the beam in the basement.     Give Dominic Cullen at A Degree of Freedom a call.  I’m sure he’d be happy to come out and investigate. 212.495.9370

deano | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Was just looking into these exact walls with engineer – seems like they are “stiffening” or “supporting” walls but not truly load bearing.  In my case – they were removed decades ago – the floors have clearly relaxed a little more but everything still remains ok.

jcm | 13 years and 1 month ago

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These partitions are known as relieving partitions – i.e. they take some of the loads from above. You need an architect or an engineer to determine whether or not the entire partition can be removed. It can be partially removed and a framed opening can be installed. If you want the entire partition removed – back to front, get some professional advice.  The fact that the joists span from bearing wall to bearing wall is meaningless if the joists do not support the dead and live loads without a third point support. There are two standards for determining allowable joist span – one is load and the other is deflection – deflection is the amount of sag – a criteria that was more stringent when celings were plastered.

greenmountain | 13 years and 1 month ago

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This topic is covered with regularity in this forum.  The reasons to open up your rooms are clear as are the reasons to retain Cof O’s as multi-unit dwellings for property value, even if you plan to live in it as a single family and want an open stairwell.  What is less clear is the structural value of the midspan support in the event of further structural compromise.  I have seen many joists damaged by persistant water leaks, blocked or missing gutters and downspouts, and even seepage from shower pans.  Many houses have had a fire in their past.    Plumbers sometimes cut them.  Joists spanning parting wall to parting wall were strong, heavy, made from virgin timber, but if they are compromised, or will be compromised, they need that mid-support.

callalily | 13 years and 1 month ago

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According to a presentation by an architect on the topic of structure in row houses that I saw, the walls running along the main beam are load bearing, and the walls running parallel to the joists are supporting or strengthening. Our neighbor removed all the walls on the ground floor without support, and his other floors are sagging. Obviously you’ll want to consult with an architect or engineer about the proper way to do this.

jcm | 13 years and 1 month ago

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One quick clarification for skarns in Dumbo: The presence of a support partition or sister beam in the basement or cellar is an indication that loads are being transferred from upper floors. The partitions are designed to relieve the loads on the joists and prevent sagging floors. The loads are cumulative coming down to the ground.