Boiler room Ventilation question
So, as is usual, depending on who you ask and what day it is, I thought since it’s Thursday I would ask the Thursday crowd. Boiler room ventilation. I have a 600 cubic foot cinder block boiler room with a WM-65 input 250,000 BTU boiler and an A.O. Smith 75,100 BTU gas water heater. Plenty of room around all the appliances in the room. The DOB required that I tightly seal off every hole that every pipe created going through the cinder block boiler room walls which includes a self latching door. The room is now AIR TIGHT! Now, those gas appliances are having a really hard time breathing. What ever air that did get in there through the holes is now plugged and there is no direct to outside venting, never was and DOB did not make an issue of that fact (in the violation!). I want to correct this and I’m having trouble figuring out which formula to use to compute the duct size. 1 sq. in. per 1000 BTU appliance total, 1 sq. in. per 2000 BTU appliance total, 1 sq. in. per 4000 BTU’s appliance total? In my case it could be anywhere from 325 sq. in. of vent (and there is no way I even have that much free space on any exterior wall to accommodate) or 81.25 sq. in. which I might be able to do if I split that into two vents to the one boiler room. The boiler room is at the back of the house making that direction the shortest route for a vent. I would have easy access to the storm cellar double door egress area. There is fortunately a grated opening as part of the cellar door unit that is 9” X 34”. Could I utilize that in some way? I also have the standard unused old coal chute at the front of the house which is smaller in size, farther away from the boiler and has a metal door with vent. The rest of the cellar is open, total cellar area 18’ wide by 35’ deep x 7’ high. So thats 4,410 total cubic feet. I would rather have something installed instead of nothing there. I don’t want the boiler and water heater to take air from my sleeping kids! Any guidance is greatly appreciated. – thanks!
unionjack
in Cellar 11 years and 5 months ago
13
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13 replies
steam_man | 11 years and 5 months ago
No offense taken at all. My guess is that you are referring to other topics you have posted about where people gave you misleading information. Am I correct? Don’t stop educating yourself. I do the same on topics with which I am unfamiliar. Unfortunately it seems the only way I can feel like I’m not getting taken advantage of. Your observation on cost vs. ability although not a linear association is still somewhat accurate. I always say..You pay peanuts and you get monkeys. You know, given what you know about the code, and what your space is like, you could make some sketches and then call the DOB and ask some questions. Might just work and at the very least you won’t be any worse off.
unionjack | 11 years and 5 months ago
steam_man I guess this is now specifically to you. No disrespect intended and if I have offended you I apologize. I am asking legit questions for my problem. I have read misleading, if not well intentioned advice here. Sometimes with a nice Chianti and sometimes with a lot of hot sauce! I guess I’m frustrated trying to educate myself to compete with professionals that I look to for solutions, only to find my research surpasses their “don’t worry I’ve been doing this for years” approach. I have not really been happy with anyone that I have hired to do things that I cannot, but I have learned that the more you are willing to spend the more professional trades people seem to get – its hard knowing where that point really is before you feel like a fool waving his funds away. I am trying to find out how to do the right thing and asking questions in as many locations is always a smart thing to do IMO. As a side, as of today after talking with yet another company on site to correct this, it would be impossible, under the conditions I have, to meet the current building codes every parameter.
steam_man | 11 years and 5 months ago
Not sure what to make of that unionjack. I thought your questions were well meaning and in line with the spirit of this forum.
unionjack | 11 years and 5 months ago
While I do realize that this forum is mainly for entertainment purposes and sniping anonymously, your guidance and common sense steam_man also matches mine. I will try to ask enough intelligent questions to get the job done correctly and hire someone who thinks likewise. I am only 89% there and the reality is, in Brooklyn, at this time, wiser knowledge equals bigger budget. Thanks again – again!
steam_man | 11 years and 5 months ago
Why not just do it right, protect yourself and your family and not worry about the risks everyone else are running? I mean..that is what I would do. As for greenmountain, he is a General Contractor not a mechanical or plumbing contractor. So kudos to him for seeking knowledge on something that a GC would not typically know about in detail. As for your neighbors, I gather there is more to that story and they are running some substantial risks not to mention wasting fuel/money. You see unionjack, the good thing is that you are actually taking time to read the code and you understand it, most people won’t and can’t. The only roadblock here is that you are looking for the easier way out (everybody does including me, so you are in good company). Let us know what you choose to do.
unionjack | 11 years and 5 months ago
OP back again – OK, so now I’m even more concerned! ignorance IS bliss or in this case potential death! My neighbor directly across the street from me, that just finalized a change in their C of O has this DOB approved, signed off on arrangement for their boiler room. 1 boiler and two water heaters in a barely big enough room to walk into, cinder block with one 8×8 vent, 12 inches from the ceiling, running straight to the front coal chute and hanging at the entrance of the chute at basement ceiling height with no additional vertical venting, nothing showing outside. The vent run is horribly and loosely sheet rocked, each end has a cheap metal grill. This arrangement PASSED a DOB inspector inspection this year, not self certified by the plumber who put in the new boiler! This is where my confusion lies. I see, read and understand the code specs, the sizing and the parameters involved, but do not see any actual correct application of the code and yet this passes DOB. Then I see that a professional also askes about proper ventilation (no offense greenmountain) and that makes me think even professionals may or may not have the correct answers. So. . . I do what everyone else does and leave the boiler room door open?
steam_man | 11 years and 5 months ago
If the pilot is off long enough and the switch sparks…I don’t have to tell you the guilt and the lawsuit you’re going to have to live with for the rest of you life. Another very important consideration (and of great concern) is the formation of mor CO due to incomplete combustion coupled with a lack of draft in a chimney. All because of lack of ventilation. Something so innocuous doesn’t seem deadly. But it is.
greenmountain | 11 years and 5 months ago
Steam Man and Master Plumber, would you please explain the safety issues. What happens if a pilot light goes out on one or another appliance, in a poorly ventilated room, with a conventional light switch? I am occasionally asked to convert basement and cellar spaces in to storage spaces, laundries, or bathrooms, sometimes closing off ventilation to rooms with hot water heaters. Never mind the violations, what should I say to my clients about safety?
unionjack | 11 years and 5 months ago
Thanks so much for your guidance on this. I have to say, on my block, in similarly sized brownstones, I have not seen anything remotely similar to what you are describing in my neighbors basements. Are they all in violation now, only waiting to be discovered? No one has a 4 foot high galvanized air stack front or back sticking out of the ground for their boiler rooms. I’m just reporting. At least I can have an informed conversation now with the vent people. Thanks again.
eman134 | 11 years and 5 months ago
mp and steam man…you guys are the best
steam_man | 11 years and 5 months ago
Right on MP. This is what he’s talkin’ ’bout: http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Fire-Damper-WP104502/_/N-m1o?s_pp=false
Master Plvmber | 11 years and 5 months ago
Good on steam man. I’ll add if the ducts pass through the building from the boiler room, they need fire-activated dampers on the inside.
steam_man | 11 years and 5 months ago
Unionjack, Use the calculation for 1 sq.in. per 2,000 BTU. This is the calc for horizontal ducts communicating directly with the outside. Although you will have a small vertical component which technically is calculated at 1 sq.in/4000 BTU, the previous calc is going to give you excess capacity. So you would need a duct measuring 125 square inches. So an 8 x 16 duct would suffice for example. Be aware that you need to have one duct at the top and one at the bottom of the room. When both vents leave the building they must be 48″ above the ground and have a screen on them. Oh yeah, if you have a water heater in there, you have to add that into the mix as well. Lastly..Look at MC 704 in the attached building code section (Chapter 7). It will give you guidance on how to use a combination of inside and outside air. I mean really, who is going to have two ducts running out of their house?!