PLG Legal Two-Families w/Basement Apartment
My wife and I are looking for a two-family with a legally-zoned basement apartment in PLG. Now, the zoning and legal use laws are complicated enough– ie ceiling heights, egress, stoves, tubs, etc– But to complicate matters PLG is comprised of an historic district which makes the process doubly hard to figure out where the legal two families are located. So to cut to the chase, I was wondering if anyone can point me to blocks which may be zoned for two-family use with a legal basement apartment. I should mention, I have tried the CO route, ie looking through COs of complete blocks– but it is impossible to figure out from the CO alone if the basement has the proper height/light/egress for legal inhabitability. Any ideas what would be the best way to try and map the potential two families myself?
jjq
in Building Code 13 years and 4 months ago
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10 replies
berniceshola | 13 years and 4 months ago
There are also rows of 2+basement+cellar limestones along Fenimore 1 (south side) and Hawhtorne 1 (north side) that fall outside the Lefferts Manor covenant but within PLG proper. These were all built as one-families around 1905-1909, but many have been converted to two or three family use. Almost none have C of Os (common for houses before 1938.) My place was originally a one-family, was lived in as a three-family for some time, and is now a 2-family (upper duplex and garden rental.) The lack of c of o wasn’t an issue at closing.
jjq | 13 years and 4 months ago
Just as another “aside”– I was walking down Lincoln the other day and saw about 8 people come out of a Garden-Level entrance. I stopped and asked, “how do you like living in the Garden Level unit.” They said they were from England, and basically rented the “unit” (no stove, no bath) for a single week for $1000. So I guess that is how certain landlords get around the “habitability” laws!!
jjq | 13 years and 4 months ago
You are so right. Truth is, if you read the actual code (which I have) there are stipulations about water-proofing and dampness– written right into the “Basement Rental” code. I was thinking that hiring a Brooklyn-based Expediter for quick consultation would be the best way to go. No offense to architects, but an Expediter would have worked on this problem before– or at least know who to ask with a quick phone call. I have walked every block in PLG, got all the online maps– but still can think of no way to figure out which two-families w/Garden entrances are either set up as 1/2s (basement PLUS Duplex above) or have potential to be converted– The COs don’t help. Your suggestions DO help. It seems a waste of an entrance and first-floor space if the Second Floor is set up as the rental unit. So we are looking for something convertable or already set up with a habitable basement. Obviously there may be a small price discount if the property is NOT set up as a 1/2– But hey, research pays! THANKS AGAIN.
BobMarvin | 13 years and 4 months ago
I didn’t mean to imply that you can’t have a legal apartment in a garden floor without a cellar underneath–I’m sure that’s possible. BUT there are issues beyond legal habitability. I personally would worry about excess moisture, or even flooding, in such an apartment (not just in PLG, but in most ANY brownstone area) and would be leary about getting into such a situation if I had an alternative. I can just imagine a panicked call from a tenant as the water rises.Of course it’s possible that I;m being too cautious.
jjq | 13 years and 4 months ago
THANK YOU! Now we are at the heart of the matter. Anyone else want to chime in?
BobMarvin | 13 years and 4 months ago
It’s the difference between a “basement” [over 50% above grade] and a “celler” [over 50% below]. Many PLG [and other neighborhood] brownstones have a full celler below their under-stoop garden floor “basements” and AFAIK there can be little question as to whether these garden floors are habitable space. Other houses have their under-stoop garden floors built with no celler below. It’s those cases where you have to get out your measuring tools. The many “Real Estate Associates” houses, on the eastern end of the Bedford–Rogers blocks in Lefferts Manor, are examples of the latter (although no rulers are needed there because of zoning and covenant restrictions). I’ll be happy to defer to any architects or land-use lawyers who want to give a more through answer.
jjq | 13 years and 4 months ago
OK THANKS– The first few posts gives me an idea where to “zero-in” for two-family COs in PLG. Now the harder bit (which can not be learned from the CO) is to figure out whether the basement (not a cellar) can be converted into a “habitable” space– complete with tub and range. By my reading, just because a brownstone has an under-stoop entrance (garden entrance) it does not necessarily mean the property has a legal habitable/rentable basement. As far as I can tell many properties in PLG use the basement in conjunction with the first floor as a duplex. Breaking the duplex into two rental units– even if the building is zoned two family and remains two family because the first and second floor become a “new” duplex– needs an “OK” and adjustment to the CO. As far as I understand it (and this board has helped), there are two MAJOR qualifiers for a basement to be “habitable” space AND rented as a single unit: 1) The BASEMENT of pre war buildings has to be at least 7 feet in height — Slightly higher for later buildings 2) The BASEMENT can have no lower than 1/2 it’s height “under grade.” — IE: The basement unit has to rise above the ground at least 1/2 its height 3) There are a couple of other requirements, (window area) but they can be “fixed” if the above two are OK So my question basically is– How are most of the two-families set up in PLG? Are they: 1) Garden + First Floor as a Single Unit AND Second Floor as a Single Unit or 2) Basement as a Single Unit AND First Floor + Second Floor as the second unit
BobMarvin | 13 years and 4 months ago
Wow–that really got garbled–here’s a corrected edit: Lefferts Manor, with it’s single-family deed covenants and R2 zoning, is the ONLY part of PLG limited to one family use. The rest of the PLG Historic District [the north side of Lincoln II and all of Lefferts and Sterling II and III] can have two family houses, as can the blocks outside of the PLG HD, including our second small Historic District [Ocean on the Park] on Ocean Avenue. Many houses, such as those on Sterling and Lefferts II and III and the wonderful double duplexes on Parkside, were designed as two family homes, so there’s no worry about things like “proper height/light/egress for legal inhabitability”.
kidbklyn | 13 years and 4 months ago
There is a distinct area within PLG called Lefferts Manor where the homes are zoned for 1 family. There are signs posted on the streets indicating that. However, there are a few homes within in the Manor that are designated ‘mother-daughter’ dwellings. These homes have an exemption from the one family zoning requirement. Some streets, like Lincoln Road are divided between PLG on one side of the street (west) and Lefferts Manor on the other (east). The west side of the street has many of homes that are occupied by more than one family. The east side of the street has very few.
BobMarvin | 13 years and 4 months ago
Lefferts Manor, with it’s single-family deed covenants and R2 zoning, is the ONLY part of PLG limited to gned as two familyone family use. The rest of the PLG Historic District [the north side of Lincoln II and all of Lefferts and Sterling II and III] can have two family houses, as can the blocks outside of the PLG HD, including our second small Historic District [Ocean on the Park] on Ocean Avenue. Many houses, such as those on Sterling and Lefferts II and III and the wonderful double duplexes on Parkside, were designed as two family homes, so there’s no worry about things like “proper height/light/egress for legal inhabitability”.