Permitting novice

Hello! I just had an offer accepted on the most incredible 1 family, that I hope to convert into a 2\. We hope to close in the next couple of weeks and I’d like to have my tradesmen lined up with their hammers ready to go by that time. I’ve been reading about permitting on this site and it seems quite complex. I checked the DOB website and I can’t find a general overview of processes. The house is old and will need (at the least): all new electrical, new plumping outside of the walls, two new kitchens and two new bathrooms, and then cosmetic work. How/where should I start with permits? How long should I expect the permitting process to last? Is it naive to believe we could start construction in a month? I’m going to have an architect come look at everything soon, and hopefully set me straight. But if there are resources out there you could point me to, or you can set me straight right here and now, I’d be so obliged.

blauprint9

in Building Code 11 years and 9 months ago

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Amym718 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Should read “At that appointment, the new PE _agreed_ the objections were erroneous…”

Amym718 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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OP–choosing an architect will take time, getting plans will take time, getting bids from GC will take time. But here’s what we didn’t anticipate when we filed for our modest reno last winter: Our plans were rejected with dozens of objections that had no relationship to our project. Obviously an error, but there was a 2 month wait for a next appointment. At that appointment, new PE the objections were erroneous, asked for 2 small changes (not design changes, just paperwork stuff). An hour’s work for the architect, but we had to wait another 2 months for a next appointment. At that appointment, my expeditor and I were turned away as “no-shows” because in spite of having signed in half an hour ahead. Best not to assume you can rush.

josh | 11 years and 9 months ago

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I have worked on 4 or 5 projects similar the one you describe. I generally work with 2 GCs that I trust and always give fair quotes. If you would like to discuss your job further please contact me. Josh http://jgoldsteinarchitect.com/

blauprint9 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Thank you August, that was really great advice. I’ll post a new post with what I am looking for. If you ever need gardening advice, let me know.

Augustiner | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Rebecca, Unfortunately this forum is set up so that there is rarely a continued discussion for longer than 3 days. So it´s mostly better to post new questions as a new topic. OK …. it is impossible to find someone ‘incredible’ who works on a modest budget (on bigger projects). I´d look for someone who does great work at a realistic price. If you want to get people interested, I would find a more precise description of the scope of work, and what you want to leave out. Cut mystic terms like ‘proportion and charm’ – this is a brick and mortar business and you get what you pay for. If you sound like you have big dreams and you don´t want to pay for it, you will scare away the good contractors and attract the wrong crowd 🙂 Don´t get me wrong, this is just free advice you can think about or forget. Another tip would be not to rush things especially in the beginning. That will cost you more time in the end.

blauprint9 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Thank you everyone for your comments! The permitting timing no longer scares me. My two week closing deadline does. I need to find an architect and a contractor experienced in restoration ASAP. Our budget is modest, and we’d like them to be able to do a fantastic job replacing all the electrical and plumbing, but then know when to hold off on the cosmetic stuff, and when it doesn’t need to be too “perfect.” We want an architect who understands proportion and charm. We’d have to move a kitchen, a wall, and a door, at the very least. Interested architects and contractors, please respond, but owners, how did you find your architects and contractors? Do you know anyone just absolutely incredible? Thank you Brownstoner community! I so look forward to the day that I am an expert and can help others. All the best, Rebecca

dazednconfused2 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Bruce – 11:28 pm. Early night or just getting started? That aside, I wouldn’t expect anything less than 4 months if filing at the borough. If you file with the hub it’s faster, maybe half the time, but they’re getting worse as more people file that way and they get busier.

dorkofwindsor | 11 years and 9 months ago

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but how long for a scott schnall special? certainly not 6 months. there are budgets and timelines for everyone.

fawn | 11 years and 9 months ago

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I’m finishing up an alt-1 renovation. It was 5 months between closing (which coincided with us signing with an architect) and the work starting. During the planning phase we were making decisions quickly and never felt like our architect was dragging his feet– it’s just a complicated process. There are a lot of details and a lot of decisions to make– more than you could realize if you’ve never done this before. Don’t look at this as wasted time. Without this planning phase (and all the schematics and schedules it produces) you’re setting yourself up for a disaster. Good planning will help ensure you can legally do what you want to do, that your GC can price the project accurately, that the vision you have in your head is realized, and that you pass inspections at the end of everything. Talk to a few architects– they will give you a walk through of the process. Also, if you’re buying the property and factoring rental income into your budget, make sure you’re allowed to convert to a 2-family! It may make sense to hire an architect to do an assessment now. Keep in mind that even if you are allowed to convert, getting a new C of O takes a long time. It could easily be a year before you’re able to rent.

manhatta | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Congratulations on the accepted offer. When do you expect to close? Oftentimes, clients opt to wait until after closing to begin the architectural design process. Otherwise, they risk paying for architectural fees for a job that may not go forward. If you started the architectural design process today, you are probably looking at 6+ months before you can start construction. Each property has its own unique set of challenges that can affect cost, timeline, etc. Feel free to contact me directly to discuss specific issues pertaining to your property in more detail. I am a licensed architect with extensive residential experience in the New York City metro. Regards, Richard http://www.manhatta.net

arch007 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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4 months. Just scheduling one plan exam can take a month. You will have 2\. http://nyc-dob.com

brucef | 11 years and 9 months ago

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I agree with the six months for NYC’s DOB. But, more importantly, creating the right plan is non-trivial and more important to the project’s ultimate success than the “headlong” rush you are hoping for. While I am quite sure that the changes you desire are clear in your mind, you will be forced to choose between unpleasant compromises that you are not aware of yet. Frankly learning the Talmud is probably easier than grasping the myriads of byzantine, contradictory building regulations. Presumably your architect has mastered this morass, but there will be considerable time spent haggling out what you want to do vs what you are allowed to do. If you keep in mind the following mantra, you will be OK with DOB – “Everything that is not forbidden is mandatory.” The following can guide you in construction: You can have quick, cheap, or good. Choose the two you want, as you can’t have all three. By pre-deciding on quick, you must now choose whether you would like cheap or good. “Rome wasn’t built in a day, … but Levittown was” Nature designs infants to be extremely cute (this is fact), because if we knew what teenagers are like, we wouldn’t have children. Your tradesmen with their hammers ready, are the teenagers in my metaphor. Yeah Jim, I know, too grim. Bruce

Augustiner | 11 years and 9 months ago

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6 months for planning and permits is more realistic in my opinion.

agenciegroup | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Congratulations on your purchase. Conversion of a 1 family to a 2 family is primarily contingent on zoning regulations for your district, and provision of appropriate egress and fire separation between the dwelling units. These are handled through an Alt 1 application at DoB. Review of this type of application can be 3-6 weeks, in addition to however long the objections clearance part of the process takes. I suggest setting aside 2 months for the DoB side of the equation. Of course there are other considerations pertaining to bathroom and kitchen for the new tenant unit, whether you will meter separately, landmarks (if applicable) etc. It is unlikely you can begin construction in 1 month. Even a super speedy permit set by an architect for submittal to the DoB is likely to take 1 month. You’ll need an asbestos inspection, and if you’re planning any enlargement to the bldg., a property survey that is more rich in info. than the mortgage survey….All this to say we are architects and structural engineers with vast residential sector experience and would be delighted to be considered. Best, Agencie Group [www.agenciegroup.com](http://agenciegroup.com)