Legal basement--or make it legal?

Longtime listener, first time caller. We’re in the process of buying a 1910 house that has no CofO, is a legal 2 family. It is 2 fully above ground floors with a basement with separate entrace that was finished originally (plaster and lathe, vintage asbestos tile floors throughout, bathroom with shower) and has a functional kitchen sink and gas hookup at the rear. Currently the configuration of the house  though is separate water and gas lines to the parlor and second floor, each of which has its own kitchen. So there was an illegal rental going on probably in the basement which is status quo in this part of BK (every house on the block has 3 floors of rentals we’ve heard) We’d love to make the basement a legal rental unit and take the top two floors. Our lawyer had suggested off the cuff that the basement would be a grandfathered apt if we were to remove the upstairs kitchen on the sly, and then when we had work done note the basement as existing in any plans. I don’t believe him however, and as we need to do substantial renovations don’t want to risk renovation the house one way only to learn he’s wrong and we’re screwed. Here are the issues I’m wondering about. First off, is there such a thing as grandfathering an apt that doesn’t meet current code (for a pre-1938 building?) Nothign I”ve read in the code suggest that. Also the downstairs has a 7 foot ceiling thoroughout, which I think is fine for a 1 family, but not for a rental unit. The front windows are I believe more than 50% below grade (it’s very close) though the rear windows I are fine. Is it possible to make the back area that’s above grade one room that is a sleeping area, and the front area that is below grade a living room space? Or is this all impossible because of hte low ceiling and being below grade for half the space? Or is it possible to make the back half of the basement a studio rental and then give them a key to a locked off portion of the basement that could be a “storage space” that is actually a living room? Safety is of the utmost importance so I’d do whatever it takes to ensure that. Any insights, tips and solutions are appreciated.

Lurker

in Building Code 12 years and 1 month ago

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jjq | 12 years and 1 month ago

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The truth is, it is a GREY AREA. talk to 3 different architects, and 3 different expediters, and you will get 6 differen opinions. I know that’s not what you wan to hear BEFORE a purchase, but that’s he situation when dealing with the DOB. Once you determine if your “garden level” is a BASEMENT– you can probably get away with renting it if there are no docs and no C of O. The key word here is PROBABLY– if you o for an alt-2 (renovation.) Think of it the way: There are twice as many rules and people to satisfy if you try and go for a change in C of O (alt-1). The alt-2 is a little easier, depending on how you go after it. In ALL CASES you need 7 foot ceilings, and he floor needs to be a least 50% above grade. Get a SURVEY before you purchase the property. If the spa. Is a legal BASEMENT– thre are other hints to consider but you are 60% there.

cupolacoffee | 12 years and 1 month ago

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Your attorney’s approach is way too cavalier. The house is a legal 2-family according to who? The DOB (where there’s no CofO)? Or NYC Finance? Because it’s status with Finance is essentially meaningless. A 2-family CofO does not give the owner the right to use any two units as living spaces. The layout must conform to the plans in DOB files, assuming those exist. If you haven’t checked the I-card, which predates CofO’s, then read here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/about/faqs.shtml#icard
As to use and rental of basement and cellar units, read more here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/owners/illegal-conversions.shtml
You should be seeking answers from an architect. Your hoped-for plans, which you describe as substantial renovations, almost certainly will require a new CofO.

shahnandersen

in Building Code 12 years and 1 month ago

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Just to add, the determination of whether it is a cellar or a basement is made in relation to LEGAL grade which is the same in the front and the back of the house and is not the same as the actual grade in either the front or the back.  Also there is no such thing as “listed” square feet (on building without a C of O).  Cellars are not counted in ZONING square footage and developed basements are counted, but I’m sure you do not have an official document with your zoning square footage listed.

jjq | 12 years and 1 month ago

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This is a tricky area, not as cut and dry as you might think.   Its not so much the DATE your home was built that will determine if your “Garden Space” is rentable– But the fact that there is no existing C of O **AND** no other existing paperwork filed over at the DOB.   There is a clause in the 1968 Building code which essentially “Grandfathers In” any work done in a Basement of a building which was completed (the work, not the building construction) before 1948\. The Clause is in “Article II Existing Buildings” (27-731 : Alterations).   In your situation you MUST get a SURVEY done to determine if you have a BASEMENT or CELLAR.   There are a host of other items to think about ie: “habitable vs occupiable” spaces– But none of that will matter if you are dealing with a cellar.

stevecym | 12 years and 1 month ago

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I have been reading about these kinds of circumstances on this site for years now and from what I can tell, an illegal basement apt, that is a full bath and kitchen, is just that – an illegal basement apt.   I cannot ever recall reading that grandfathering is a way out.  also, at some point, a basement becomes a cellar and that will bring about an entire new set of issues – I cannot recall what the criteria is for a cellar – but it is in the code and easy to find.   Steve