Do I need a second exit on the ground floor of a duplex?

We occupy the duplex of our 3 family brownstone (ground & parlor floor). Parlor floor has front door exit to street and back door exit to backyard. Currently ground floor also has two ways in and out, same as parlor. We’re thinking about eliminating the back door on the ground floor to accommodate a a new bathroom which means our duplex will now have three different ways in and out. Is there anything illegal about getting rid of the backyard exit on the ground floor?

nuyorkgurl

in Building Code 11 years and 4 months ago

11

Please log in, in order to post replies!

11 replies

Newest Oldest

bkarchitect | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4932 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4920 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "180468"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "bkarchitect"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bbtmadlfn5eMBFTsmMiwN0tZFm3bah/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "bkarchitect"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(26) "toddell_wilson@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:06:29"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "Rank Stranger"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(180468)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Another thing to consider would be your max lot coverage and 30′ rear yard requirement (assuming you are not within 100′ of the corner).

bkarchitect | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4931 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4930 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "180468"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "bkarchitect"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bbtmadlfn5eMBFTsmMiwN0tZFm3bah/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "bkarchitect"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(26) "toddell_wilson@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:06:29"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "Rank Stranger"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(180468)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

If you block only the ground floor access to the rear yard, you are still left with two means of egress in the owner’s unit – one out the front and two up the stairs and out the front. A dwelling unit only needs one way out to a corridor depending on your travel distance. It’s impossible to say without seeing your floor plans, but I wouldn’t dismiss it outright without consulting an architect.

dazednconfused2 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4927 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4933 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209624"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BghKLTB3pwiNsI5BhQ/fSb/bBQWxiL0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "un.perceived@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-04 18:01:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209624)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Housepoor, the ladder is roof access but is not considered a second means of egress. Technically, it’s there for the firefighters to get to the roof to fight a fire from above. Sprinklers are generally accepted in lieu of the second means of egress.

housepoor | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4930 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4932 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "71781"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "housepoor"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$/FcjiKlefNxZbTPgi.sDW.3mhyu12E62ijN8M/o9As5nBR2ZXA2Xq"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "housepoor"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(25) "jonathanscooper@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "/forums/users/housepoor/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:30:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "housepoor"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(71781)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

What about a ladder leading to a roof hatch that is off the common stairway (in a 3 family)? Is that considered a separate means of egress for all the apartments (in addition to the common stairs leading to the front door)? How do sprinklers (in the common hallway) impact this? If there weren’t sprinklers — just the common stairway leading up to the roof hatch and down to the front door, what would this be considered? Thanks as always….

dazednconfused2 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4931 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5094 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209624"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BghKLTB3pwiNsI5BhQ/fSb/bBQWxiL0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "un.perceived@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-04 18:01:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209624)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

meme2 – it sounds like you can get rid of one of those doors, but there are other considerations, for instance you cannot go through a bedroom to get to the door or fire escape.

dazednconfused2 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4927 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5095 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209624"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BghKLTB3pwiNsI5BhQ/fSb/bBQWxiL0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "un.perceived@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-04 18:01:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209624)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Egress to the exterior must be provided by a door. Windows are allowed as egress when they provide access to fire escapes, roof setbacks, and balconies. The 2008 code states that in addition to standard means of egress, emergency escape windows are required in Residential and certain institutional buildings. So you CAN have an egress window, but you MUST have egress doors.

meme2 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5094 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4930 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "74572"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(5) "meme2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BQufoOPHtUrXkAVhVAbpBqL4W2V7UC0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(5) "meme2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "isabelrubionyc@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2010-09-21 14:54:13"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(5) "meme2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(74572)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

heres another question how about on a second floor that has 2 doors and a window with fire escape can I get rid of a door? especially when they dont use it nad have a piece of furniture infront of the door?

snowman2 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5095 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4931 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "44724"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "snowman2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BDP80X2Moanat7f.BJt0mvubJXx6xN/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(8) "snowman2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "j_marali@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2010-02-19 23:49:09"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(8) "snowman2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(44724)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Does the egress have to be a door? Can it be an egress window?

nuyorkgurl | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4927 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5097 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "181541"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(10) "nuyorkgurl"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Baz1NeYtGHcymle78TmRQSzVfCFDFT0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(10) "nuyorkgurl"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "bwills357@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:45:16"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(10) "nuyorkgurl"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(181541)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Thanks for the responses. I was afraid that would be the case. It’s amazing to live on just two floors but have four different means of egress, and that’s not including all the windows. Guess that’s part of the “joy” of brownstone ownership.

jill11222 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5094 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5096 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "181364"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "jill11222"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B67UQuMgngisNbIhnQXXczTftPC/CL/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "jill11222"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "sourbetty@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:45:07"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(60) "1750621412:$generic$BqccBzZ-0NXZhrEwe4QkJH2IJ2d4tq_tqDfYELwM"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "jill11222"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(181364)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Having just gone through this discussion for my 2-family. It is my understanding that, Yes, you need 2 points of egress on the ground floor.

dazednconfused2 | 11 years and 4 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5097 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5095 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209624"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BghKLTB3pwiNsI5BhQ/fSb/bBQWxiL0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "un.perceived@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-04 18:01:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209624)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

3-families, one of which is a duplex, so it’s at least a 4-story building, right? The garden floor is considered a basement, which is a story. In that case, you need two means of egress from every floor: 1968 code: §[C26-603.2] 27-366 Exits from floors. – 1\. There shall be at least two independent exits, remote from each other, from every floor of a building, except that only one exit may be provided from floors in: The exceptions to that rule apply to 1 & 2 family buildings, non-combustible buildings (wood floor joists make it combustible), or buildings less than 4 stories.