Opinions on Parlor Floor Layout?
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Hi all. Recently purchased a 17×45 brownstone that will need extensive renovations, and planning on making it a 2-family owners triplex over garden rental. I’m having a difficult time deciding on layouts and would love to hear the community’s thoughts/advice.
Starting with the Parlor floor, thinking of: * Opening up the living room due to the narrow width (I realize some are against knocking out this wall)
* Putting the kitchen in the middle seems to makes most sense space-wise, allowing for dining room with table sideways in the back; but haven’t seen this before. Also didn’t like having to walk through a formal dining room that wouldn’t be used much each time to get to the kitchen
* New “media” wall in living room for TV (as TV over fireplace will be too high) and to give kitchen more cabinet/counter space. The concern is that this partitions the spaces a bit too much, but tried to make a large hallway next to the stairs
Any suggestions? Pic of a proposed plan to the right. Would a U-shaped kitchen w/ peninsula be better use of space than an island? Would the kitchen in the back with dining room in the middle be more preferable for some reason? Thanks!
jp1969
in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 6 months ago
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daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 6 months ago
greenmt…they should be done this weekend. I’ll post more pics on Monday.
brokelin | 13 years and 6 months ago
oh, and i would not use an island or a peninsula. unless you put both the dining room and kitchen in the back. then the kitchen would be a narrow galley style along one wall, likely where your dining room fireplace is now, and the other side would be a long narrow island, no stools, separating the kitchen from the dining area, and will provide you with counter space and under counter storage.
daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 6 months ago
Good point brokelin. You spend more time in the kitchen, especially with an island that seats people than you will at that formal dining table. How big is the family and how often will you use the more formal dining table? My front parlour is about 13′ wide and 35′ long so there’s more than enough space for a full LR and a formal dining area towards the rear, just before the sliding parlour doors to the rear room which is where the kitchen and TV rooms are. I have not removed my walls separating those spaces from the hallway.
jp1969 | 13 years and 6 months ago
Thanks for the feedback! BruceF, yep, there is a 2’x1’10” coat closet in the above next to the fridge. Too small? DIBS & brokelin, I was thinking that as long as as left the space between the dining room and kitchen open, that light would come through the planned glass doors, but again I can’t picture it as I haven’t seen it in person. Definitely would have an overhang for seating at the island. Below is a plan for the kitchen in the rear, do you guys like this better and if so why? Just seemed to me like wasted space in the hallway between the living area and the bath, and the kitchen & living area get smaller. I’ve seen where people open it up completely, and it just seems messy when the dining and living are one giant space. But the fireplace back there isn’t great, and can be moved to the front parlor as that one is missing to give more cabinet/pantry space in the back. And where do you put the TV in the living room in that configuration? At open houses we either saw no TV there at all, or above the fireplace which just seems odd and too high to view comfortably.
http://cdn.brownstoner.com/4ed8f1183c577-processed-End_Kitchen.jpg
brokelin | 13 years and 6 months ago
between preparing meals and cleaning up, I spend more time in the kitchen most days than sitting eating, so I like the kitchen to be in the sun. makes a huge difference in my mood. that said, I also like dining with a view. consider putting the kitchen along one side in the back, and a dining table on the other. otherwise, put the dining area in the middle. get rid of the idea of island counter with stools. it does block flow. then you will not have a formal dining room you do not use but rather a dining table you use every day. as to taking down stair hall wall, i can see why you want to do it in a house this width, especially in the front and back. consider leaving a wall in the middle portion of the floor. It gives you separation so the powder room does not open directly into the dining room or kitchen, which i think is important. It also sometimes gives you room to build in a coat or other storage closets or cabinets. though I am one who does not think one needs a coat closet per se. yes, you need a place to put coats, but this can be done better sometimes with the use of an antique armoire or other built in cabinetry, rather than a typical boring closet. I would go for the powder room over a coat closet, as long as I have room for an armoire for coats somewhere.
brokelin | 13 years and 6 months ago
the middle of the floor will be darkest, having no direct sunlight. you have to decide which room you want to occupy this center space. Having had a kitchen in the center, I would put it in the back, as I found that I much prefer spending time in the kitchen when I have a sunny one. and bete y
brucef | 13 years and 6 months ago
Greenmt, We usually try to hide a 6″ deep chase behind the kitchen, with Kindorf every 6′ to accomodate hydronic pex, gas and plumbing risers. If there is no bathroom above, 2″ waste and vent aren’t too big. Biggest might be kitchen exhaust going up. We’ve found the convenience of no hub couplings as long as the weight is nicely supported with Kindorf trumps the lighter weight and somewhat lower cost of PVC. Your mileage may vary.
greenmountain | 13 years and 6 months ago
Where are the stacks and vents for the kitchen and bathroom on this floor? How do they tie in to the bathrooms on the other floors? If you are adding plumbing fixtures to a side of the house, where there is no stack, what decorative features will you be cutting or covering to insert these large, expensive and ugly pipes?
daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 6 months ago
A few points: With what looks like a double wide exit to a deck, that restricts what you can build as a kitchen against the back wall in the rear, hence your plan looks pretty good as it is. That said, if the rear fireplace won’t be functional, you could still have the kitchen in the rear. I actually like islands (despite the cry of “sunurbs” bruce) but I wouldn’t have one without and overhang to accomodate a few stools (the kitchen is oftentimes the focal point of entertaining for better or worse) and, at 3′ deep, yours could do that. If you did move the kitchen to the rear, the dining table could be in the bacl portion of the front room or even a separate middle room constructed. Then consider a round table where you add leaves when you have more than 4 people. I agree with bri=uce that a coat closet is a necessity, even more so than a parlour level powder room if that’s the level upon which you enter and leave. With your interior front-to-rear wall removed, you have as much space as in a 20′ wide brownstone where it hasn’t been removed. Also, I don’t see wall cabinets on your kitchen plan. If you are actually going to have them then the two pantries are overkill, especially with island storage (7′ is actually quite a bit). One could become a coat closet…maybe put it forward of the powder room and move the powder room back a bit. OK…I just saw the 1′ 10″ closet…maybe too small. But, I think that 4\. between island and wall is more than adequate for traffic from front to rear. it’s not like you’re going to ring the triangle bell for chow and have 15-20 people pushing through there at the same time!!!
brucef | 13 years and 6 months ago
I favor kitchen in rear, dining middle, living front. We are 22’X40′ with hall, so different look and feel. But our 15′ after the hall is just about the same as you. I think you need to splurge and make it open for spaciousness. The option to lengthen the table to accomodate a whole mess of people has for us been memorable. We have sat 24 for a holiday dinner, all the way through to kitchen. You should be able to have plenty of counter along one wall (fridge maybe across on other side). Peninsula cries “suburb” and you can have moveable work surface out in the middle if you absolutely need more counter. It might help you to put tape on floor to mark out your layout. I think your plan with island is more congested than you realize. Yeah it technically fits, but there will be bottle necks on each side of island. Open the stove/fridge/dishwasher and you can’t get by. I don’t see a coat closet in your plan, but unless climate change is coming faster than we think, you’re gonna need one.