Neighbor's fence on my property
I had a similar issue. There were existing fences on three sides of my rear yard and no one really knew who owned them; they were falling over, of all different heights. People just kept adding pieces rather than remove anything. It was ugly and impossible to keep clean. I removed the various chainlink and chickenwire junk and put up a wrought-iron fence because I wanted sunlight on my garden; one house next door sold and the new owners put a (now ubiquitous) horizontal wood plank type 6 footer. So there goes the sunlight, but it is on their property so their choice. You should definitely tell your neighbor, IN WRITING, certified, etc. with an idea of what it will look like.
anotherpsarchitect
in Brownstoner Renovation 9 years and 2 months ago
14
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14 replies
emmajacob | 9 years and 2 months ago
I’m renovating my brownstone, so we had a survey done of our property lines. It ends up that my next door neighbor’s (ugly) chain link fence, which separates our two gardens, is about 8″ on my property. We’d like to renovate/landscape our garden, remove her fence, and put up a new wooden one on the correct lines. My contractor says that we can just give the neighbor notice that we’re doing so, and just go ahead and remove her fence (and offer to replace it with the wooden fence at our own cost). My lawyer says its not worth the fight and that we should just install our fence next to the chain link fence – but then we’re losing precious inches. Would love thoughts from those who have experience in this. Should I go through the DOB?
catbk | 9 years and 2 months ago
Property line runs thru the middle of the party wall – make sure you’re right!
chjuran | 9 years and 2 months ago
Try reaching out to the neighbor, with a friendly letter. There might be no ‘fight’ at all. You could even include a copy of the survey. Don’t need to include the DOB at this point Bad advice from your laywer IMHO
BobMarvin | 9 years and 2 months ago
If it’s inside your property line isn’t it YOUR fence, rather than your neighbor’s?
workisfun | 9 years and 2 months ago
yes – bad lawyer advice. You want to maintain clean title, etc. also, as soon as you acknowledge the encroachment and accept it, you might come to regret it, legally speaking. Start with a friendly conversation. What (figurative) ground could the neighbor stand on?
daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 2 months ago
I can remember reading on here in the past that if the encroachment has been there for some time there may be nothing you can do about it. You haven’t said if you discussed this with the neighbor which would be the first logical step. He may or may not even believe it’s his fence and since you want to replace it at your expense may not care one way or the other.
workisfun | 9 years and 2 months ago
Regarding adverse possession, there are nuances that were legislated in 2008\. The law takes into account who knew what when. In other words, the encroacher is not permitted to use the 10 year statute to his/her advantage by slyly encroaching and after 10 years say “haha, not it’s mine”. I guess prior to 2008, that was happening a lot. It’s only a fence…I’m sure you’ll have no problem straightening everything out. Try the neighborly approach – good luck.
emmajacob | 9 years and 2 months ago
Thanks, all. I forgot to mention that my neighbor is particularly cantankerous. We had sent a friendly note and left messages to say “hello” when we first started our renovation, and she’s proceeded to be pretty uncooperative (calling the DOB on us for violations that didn’t exist – the DOB has come out and said so – and things like that). So, I’ll probably try to approach her in a friendly manner, but am girding myself for it not going well.
Arkady | 9 years and 2 months ago
Bob Marvin makes an excellent point – I’d just proceed as if it’s your fence to do w/ as you wish if she isn’t amenable & take that point of view w/her if she demurs.
workisfun | 9 years and 2 months ago
Bob Marvin is right. Just be sure to take good care of the chainlink, in case she wants to reinstall it on her side.
slopefarm | 9 years and 2 months ago
I would make sure your new fence is entirely on your side of the line, not right on the line. You should get good (emphasis on good) legal advice on adverse possession. to the extent the neighbor has a valid claim, you would want to know your risk of having to rip out your new fence and putting back her old one where it was. I’d get a little more comfortable on the risk and ramifications before proceeding.
thetinkerswagon | 9 years and 2 months ago
my family has been through a number of these. first, with adverse possession, there must be a need. ie, they have been crossing your land to get to their back door because the cliff at the front of the house has been washed away by erosion and the local authorities did nothing to replace the road. this does not sound as if it can become that. bob’s point falls in line with what someone else said on here some time back and that is, if it is on your property it is yours. so unless she can pull out the receipt to say she paid for it, can she claim it (the fence I mean, not the 8″ of land)? the fences on both side of my house were here long before I moved in and probably before my neighbors moved it. now, if she has the receipt, she could have a case for damage to property if you touch it and seeing as the police in this city really don’t know a lot about anything – but especially real estate law – my bet is, even if it is on your property, if she has paperwork and you touch it, you could have an issue and the issue may get settled before a judge, but it will cost a lot of money before it reaches that point. in so far as losing the right to it, I always thought there was a 7 year clock. a neighbor here told me no. and he is a smart man (probably went down that road with a lawyer on this issue once but did not share the full story with me). Here is what happen to my mom a few years ago and I wrote about it here some time back: she moved into a house on LI. there was a fence 3′ inside her property line (as shown by the survey). it did not run from the road to the rear lot line locking her out; more likely it fenced in her back yard. on that 3′ of land the neighbors had planted some pretty nice trees and shrubs and were continually adding to them. my mom really did not mind them using her land as there is an abundance of land out there in Suffolk County and they were doing a nice job with it. but she did not want it to become THEIR land and she was also concerned as to what would happen if someone got hurt there or when she went to sell. So she contacted her lawyer and he sent them a polite note asking them to sign an acknowledgement that it was my mother’s land. they ignored the letter. he sent another letter telling them that if they did not sign within 14 days, a fence would be put up on the property line; 10 days later they began removing their shrubs (and we cannot figure out why they simply did not sign the letter and leave the shrubs. Now that my mother is living there a while, they are friendly with one another and just this morning the man sent his daughters over to shovel snow out of her driveway). People are odd over some things that sometimes do not matter or can take simple corrective courses. I have to be careful when telling people what to do here as I run a business and try to maintain a level of professionalism. I can tell you, if this were me and I wanted that fence gone, I would double check that survey and be sure I am correct and i would proceed just as some others have said. my family has had some other issues of rights-of-way (my father has a deeded but unused one passing through his land now and my family had another house with a shared but undeeded driveway which fell under adverse possession because my grandfather build a room on the other side of that house in 1940). check the laws before you proceed. you want everything on your side if you decide to take this down on your own. and, if you do do what my mother did and they do not cooperate and you proceed on your own, it will get expensive. Steve
carmenf | 9 years and 2 months ago
I would triple check your survey before moving forward- we got a survey from a reputable company and they still messed up the elevation in some parts of our drawings. It was non-critical so we didn’t make a stink about it, but it’s worth paying the few hundred bucks to get a second opinion.
Parnassus | 9 years and 2 months ago
Because your neighbor is so uncooperative I would send the neighbor a letter using registered mail stating your intention to move and replace the fence within three months. I would also furnish the neighbor with a list of property surveyors and suggest to the neighbor that they conduct their own property survey using a property surveyor of their choice and that you will pay for that survey.