Help making a brownstone purchase decision. 16 1/2 wide 3 family or 18 wide 4

If you need mortgage financing please let me know. Also- depending on the type of financing your seeking on a 3-4 unit there may be restrictions and caps based on market rent.. Vanessa Thatcher Senior Loan Officer NMLS# 41404 Atlantic Home Capital 4175 Veterans Memorial Hwy, Ste 310 Ronkonkoma, NY 11779 Office: 631-687-3510 x106 Direct Dial: 631-468-8809 Direct Fax: 631-918-5222 Cell: 631-672-4113 “Pennies don’t fall from heaven; they have to be earned here on earth” ~Margaret Thatcher~ Website: www.atlantichomecapital.com You can catch me in the directory at www.Brownstoner.com www.montauk-online.com http://brickunderground.com/directory/listing/guide/mortgages NEW SITE http://www.bktothefullest.com

vthatcher

in Brownstoner Renovation 11 years and 10 months ago

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stuyheights | 11 years and 10 months ago

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Hello all, I have been reading this forum for the last week or so, trying to educate myself as much as possible, prior to making a purchase. I have seen many brownstones in the last 30 days, and im trying to get a handle on just how much work is involved with what I am trying to accomplish. I have narrowed my choices down to a 3 family which is 16 1/2 wide and a 4 family that is 18 wide. We are a younger couple, currently renting and after downpayment, taxes, insurance, and rent we will be collecting, it seems to be cheaper then what we are currently paying in rent right now. The 4 family is done, and the realtor told me he expects the listing in the next couple of days. He has been in it, but I have not. I only know what he has told me about it… I have driven past the house a few times, and I like the block and the idea of collecting 3 rents to offset our mortgage. From what I am told, everything has been redone on this house, but it is NOT a flip. The people purchased it in 2005 and renovated everything. Im told the house has a new roof, electric, kitchen, and nothing at all needs to be done. My only concern with this house is that HOW has it been done. I like the location, the fact that it is turn key, and we can start collecting rent immediately. Next we have the 3 family which I have only seen pictures of, with a 1st showing coming this week. The house is old, and needs a lot of work. I don’t want to say a gut rehab, but I would imagine it would be close to it. We would try and preserve any details but at the same time, make it modern and up to date. I have read many different price ranges on this on this site. Some break it down to a price per square foot, some say 100k a floor, some say less… This is a 4 story brownstone that is 16.5 feet wide. We would really want to do this house high end if we were to look to take on this project, and im trying to get some idea of what it would cost. Overall the house looks it decent shape from the pics we have seen. The price of the 3 family would be about 600k less, but would require at least 250-350k worth of work… As far as the rents go, it seems as though the 3 family would cost us about 4-600 per month more to live in, due to the fact it is a duplex, and the 4 family has a finished basement though… We would like to make an offer on a property this week but we are having a tough time making a decision here and wanted your experienced advise. Is a 4 family better or worse value? Is a 18 foot wide brownstone much more desirable then a 16.5? How would you set up the 3 family if you were to gut rehab it? Bedrooms on the bottom, kitchen on top, to block noise? I am tempted to do the 3 family rehab and design the house exactly how we want it, but don’t want to think its going to cost us 250 going into it, and it ends up costing us 400… I also like the fact of the finished product of the 3 family having “instant equity” where the 4 family would be at market value, as they are very hard to come by. Thoughts, concerns, and feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so very much. Cheers,

allyslope | 11 years and 10 months ago

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Check out the DOB website on NYC.gov to see how many people worked on the 4 family. That will give you an idea how it was done. If there are many permits, different subs and violations it may not be a good idea to buy it.

brokelin | 11 years and 10 months ago

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It seems to me you are putting the cart WAY before the horse here. I think you shouldn’t be thinking about making an offer on either house until you have SEEN it, really walked through it, preferably with a contractor with you to give you a sense of what’s up with the house. (Unless you are so wealthy that what you spend really doesn’t matter at all, which is, I suppose, a possibility.) And, as far as renovation costs, you should assume that if you go into it thinking it will be 250, it will be more than 400 by the time you are done. (Though a house that a realtor tells you is done could also end up costing you hundreds of thousands in work.) You need to see and inspect a house before you believe it is done to your satisfaction.

agdipierro

in Brownstoner Renovation 11 years and 10 months ago

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Allocate $350/ft for a gut renovtion

mousta | 11 years and 10 months ago

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Agree with everything above. Look at the houses and see what will work for you. Let’s just say that either scenario works for you. Renovating is almost a full time job if you want to do it properly. You have to be a very active participant. If you are ready for that then you will probably come out ahead and have that instant equity as you said (I’m making assumptions about the general locations of these houses). The other part of the equation is the renters. Managing a building is also work. More tenants means more work. It’s not exactly a 1:1 ratio of tenant to work, but it’s not nothing. Another thing to keep in mind is possible reconfiguration of the house down the road. Would you want to take over more of the house at some point? Which would accommodate this more? 18 feet wide is definitely better than 16.5 but i’ve seen center stair 16ft wide houses with great layouts that work very well. As far as bedroom locations it all depends on the house. There is something to be said for bedrooms on the bottom floor to shield sound from tenants.

mrohrmann | 11 years and 10 months ago

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wider the better as always, but you will have to see each place in person and examine every detail. Like everything else in BK real estate the devil is in the details. good luck.

stuyheights | 11 years and 10 months ago

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Appreciate the replies. Thank you all very much… Im aware I would have to see both homes, but the realtor is a friend of mine who I trust. He didn’t get the listing of the 4 family yet, but the 3 is currently for sale. I will walk through the 3 with a contractor as soon as I possibly can, but I have seen pics of both. The 3 family looks to be much more original with lots of details, and the 4 (from the pics I’ve seen) look much more modern, but not super high end. allyslope, this was a very helpful suggestion. It seems as though the people who own the 4 family purchased the home in 2005, but all work orders are prior to that, meaning one of two things. 1\. they didn’t do the work and they bought the home this way 2\. They did the work by a “handy man” who didn’t file… Interesting! Housepoorer- The 3 family would have a duplex, and I could even finish the basement down the road if I decided, so as far as taking more of the house at some point, that would probably be the better house to do it in. I do like the idea of having bedrooms on the bottom floor as well. I would have to see what the contractor says. Brokelin- Agreed! Thanks again everyone! Appreciate it!

stuyheights | 11 years and 10 months ago

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Saw the 3 family today and it is in MUCH better shape then I thought. The home has many great details remaining. I have set up a time for my contractor to come back to the house this Saturday to take a look and let me know his thoughts. Does anyone have a good architect they can recommend? I think we are going to put in an offer on this home but after looking at it, I don’t think it needs a gut reno. Defiantly some major updating but I don’t think it would be a gut, but well see what my contractor says. How much can I expect to pay an architect for something like this? Im thinking new floors, restoring stairs, new sheet rock, all new kitchens, bathrooms, ect. Would this still be considered a gut? I would like to keep anything I can get away with in the home. Although the 16.67 wide wouldn’t be my 1st choice, its the best location and price, and allows us the largest amount of money for renovations. Thanks!

architensions | 11 years and 10 months ago

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Hi There, our architecture offices made several similar cases. At the end all our clients decided to go for a 3 family. Also when is the case for 4 family more restrictive fire code and building code are applied bringing the renovation to a pricier range. regards, Alessandro architensions.com info@architensions.com 917 438 6831