Gut Renovation Process
There seems to be a lot of advice from the owner side of things, here is my two cents from the designer side: Never having done a gut reno, I am curious about the process. What are the basic steps once you find a brownstone you’re interested in purchasing? I won’t weigh in on the real estate side of things, but having a good broker to shepard you through the purchasing process is ideal. Make sure the house is inspected and you check the NY DOB Building Information System to check for violations and a C of O. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/home/home.shtml
Do I rely on the conractor to find an architect or do you suggest my interviewing different architects and hiring my own? It is typically the other way around. The architect will design the project around your scope and budget and aid you in finding a contractor that can do the work to fit the sope (price, skill level etc.) Architects work with contractors on a daily basis, so they can tell you who has the chops and who doesn’t. If you do choose a contractor first, make sure that you have seen work from their portfolio that is comparable to the scope of your renovation. Owners often choose contractors who replaced a few of their windows and is good with the kids. This doesn’t mean they can renovate your entire house. As for choosing an architect, it is best to find one that has experience in brownstone renovations and has an aesthetic that works for you. Architects are more flexible aesthetically than the myth suggests, but things go smoother when you are on the same page.
Is an engineer needed to inspect the house before as well? This is always ideal so that you can reduce the number of surprises that could may come up during construction. Always have a contingency built into your budget for unforseen work that may need to happen (structural, plumbing, electrical etc.) Brownstones are old building, and require a lot of love when they are first gut renovated.
From what I’ve read here, an architect’s renderings are needed to properly estimate a renovation cost … is that correct? This is absolutely not correct. A good contractor can give you a good estimate, provided the architect has prepared a good set of drawings. Renderings are only helpful in visualizing the space, especially if reading plans is not your strong suit. Keep in mind that even basic renderings are expensive, and take time to produce.
chrisalker
in Brownstoner Renovation 12 years and 4 months ago
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cgowner | 12 years and 4 months ago
Never having done a gut reno, I am curious about the process. What are the basic steps once you find a brownstone you’re interested in purchasing? I have a house in mind that probably needs a gut reno and will be bringing my contractor to preliminarily check it out to see the scope of what needs to be done. I have worked with this contractor and like his work, so will most likely be hiring him. Do I rely on the conractor to find an architect or do you suggest my interviewing different architects and hiring my own? Is an engineer needed to inspect the house before as well? From what I’ve read here, an architect’s renderings are needed to properly estimate a renovation cost … is that correct?
brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago
You are taking the correct first step by admitting that you don’t know who to trust, what to do. I would recommend reading one of the Temple Grandin books, by the autistic woman who invented animal equipment and became a professor. The portion of the book I am referring to is her basic discussion between prey animals and herbivores. Somertimes I find her clarity invigorating, stripped of normal niceties. Where I am going with this is you are the zebra, or deer, or gazelle, hoping for a better life and a home. Contractors (I am one), architects, engineers, realtors etc are carnivores. Cirlce of life blah, blah, blah, but we need to feed on herbivores to survive. Gut renovation 101 – The way it is supposed to work is you interview architects until you are ready to trust your life to him/her. They are supposed to come up with a design and guide you through the process. They are supposed to know the byzantine regulations, but also the construction details. You are supposed to kiss enough frogs till one of them turns into a prince. I have seen my share of princes and not so noble professionals. Most mean well, but, face it, they are carnivores, and you are prey. It’s nothing personal, if we don’t eat, we die.
brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago
BTW, another point Ms Grandin makes is that herbivores are innately driven to be curious. She said stand in a field of cows, and they will come over to you to investigate and lick you. I asked my brother, a biologist, about this and he explained as follows. Deer are protected from predators (natural and man) while in the forest. So why don’t they stay in the forest where they would be safe from predators? The answer is there is nothing to eat in the forest, that the nourishing grasses and bushes to browse on are either in the open meadow or at the edge. Caution, caution, caution.
cgowner | 12 years and 4 months ago
HAHAHAHAHA … Thx. I love the metaphors and will take them to heart. Seriously, I do hear you loud and clear. I am very aware of Temple Grandin and her incredible journeys and will read her books. Thx.
fractalogical | 12 years and 4 months ago
I would hope that the relationship is a bit more symbiotic than that described above. Both parties want a win-win scenario where the client is pleased with the work and recommends the architect/contractor, which then leads to more business for the latter. To follow the analogy, if the contractor ‘eats’ the client, and the client posts a bad review online, it will be much harder for that contractor to find new prey in the future.
theoperadiva | 12 years and 4 months ago
Going through a gut renovation right now ourselves, I can say that the path you take depends largely on you, the amount of time and money you have and the bulk of the changes required in the house (are mechanicals or aesthetics more important to you?). We previously combined two apartments, one requiring a gut, with our wonderful contractor (Naccarato Contracting) and developed a really great relationship with the company. My husband and I had enough time, patience and persistence to investigate every detail, define the layout to best meet our needs, choose every detail in the place, etc. We were therefore able to hire an architect for that job that served more a draftsperson role and rely on our contractor to work with us on any details that needed clarification. We opted to go a similar route on this job, though we did find an architect through Houzz.com whose work we really admire (Ben Herzog). We spent countless hours working on the floorplan and major details ourselves by combing through Houzz, Gardenweb, Pinterest and other sites and becoming educated in everything from the various types of thermostats available, heating systems, floor finish options…you name it. We went to the architect with a great deal of information already in hand, but their refinement of our plans will ultimately make a huge difference in the overall polish of the house. We can’t afford to pay them to offer us 5 doorknobs to choose from, but we do have the time to investigate that ourselves. We also have the architect, our engineer and our contractor meet at every important interval (before structural work as been completed, before sheetrocking begins, as gas lines and heating ducts are being placed, etc.), and the fact that they are working extremely well together has really made for a reasonably smooth experience. So, bottom line from one who is currently in your boat (we’re about 4 months into our renovation): we had a party we trusted implicitly, so we we chose our contractor first. We found an architect whose aesthetic worked well with ours and who was willing to work within an unusual arrangement given the level of involvement we promised to maintain. We are extremely vigilant in keeping an eye on everything, and we have largely been responsible for cajoling, harassing, etc. parties for information about when things need to be ordered, making sure processes with the DOB were moving along, keeping the punch list up to date, and contacting relevant parties when we do have questions that needed to be addressed, etc. If you don’t have time to do all of that, ensuring that either your contractor or your architect are competent administrators will be key to keeping your renovation running efficiently and as cost-effectively as possible. Hope that helps! Good luck, whatever you choose!
theoperadiva | 12 years and 4 months ago
PS Our contractor did a “back of the envelope” estimate for our project in a walk through with us before we purchased our home, and his costs ultimately rose about 10-15% after the final architectural renderings were defined. This was largely due to substantial structural elements that were added after our initial plan, but yes, you’ll likely need a final set of plans for any contractor to provide a concrete figure for you.
cgowner | 12 years and 4 months ago
Thanks. I appreciate the time you have taken to explain everything. It helps a great deal. I will definitely check out your architect as I have no contacts as yet. I am self-employed and can take as much time as needed, so I will be very intimately involved with the process. I have very specific design aesthetics and have no issue with researching fixtures, paints etc., right down to the minute details. This is such a huge learning curve, but one I am willing to take on. Thanks again.
brokelin | 12 years and 4 months ago
To go with the animal references, be sure to use your gut in picking people. Your gut will give you clues, heed them. Also, look for people highly recommended by others – but know that what relationship worked for someone else to get a great job won’t necessarily work for you, as you are a different person, so the relationship will be different – so trust your gut, even when recommendations are stellar. And get people whose work is work you like, and who have done work in an aesthetic similar to what you want.
brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago
JoeArchitect – it was a metaphor, not a personal indictment. being a bit defensive today? OperaDiva, I liked your advice. Most important, you took responsibility for the good and bad, and you realized that there is no “other” party to transfer all the responsibility to. The more control you cede to another, the greater the risk of going quite a distance in a direction you never intended.