Contractor dispute

Sorry this is a bit long winded but I wanted to get a wider opinion [from other contractors as much as anyone on this issue] We recently started a minor renovation job, alt2 filing renovation of an existing bathroom and addition of a new bathroom. Contractor priced the job & signed contracts based on filing with dob and pulling permits – in addition they would not be responsible for all items as we already had an hvac contractor. The job was disaproved at the last minute over a couple of minor issues but we proceeded to start the work anyway given a  tight timeframe [christmas guests] and knowing that the initial demo didn’t require filing as we planned to refile. Two days in [Monday of this week] with work still in demo phase we got the dob approval and I advised the contractor we were approved and requested details to pull permits. Wednesday evening later – when they had started some minor pipe installation and I was chasing them for details on who would pull the plumbing permit they called me in the evening, said they do official jobs differently and that they would have to stop work and review the approved plans. Nothing has changed in the plans except addition of smoke detectors which I had already asked them to price as an additional item. They received the plans yesterday lunchtime – I called them this morning to follow up on the status of pulling the permits and they requested to meet with me onsite at the end of day Monday. So I’ve figured out at this stage that they weren’t using a master plumber for the plumbing given they considered it an unfiled job even though they’d quoted on that basis and I’d made it clear I did plan to file. They never indicated to me this would be an issue and now although they haven’t made clear what they actually want to get this moving again I’m getting the sense they are stalling and want me to pay more for this. Had they warned me about this  I might feel they are justified but given I was quoted on the basis of a legal job I feel its them trying to pull a fast one with a cheaper plumber that ended us up here.  So thats the story – I’m not looking for judgement – I already feel like an idiot for not waiting especially as I’ve got no chance of a new bathroom by Christmas at this point. What I’m looking for is feedback on whether I’m being unreasonable here to expect them to continue without expecting more money.

orrsuz

in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 5 months ago

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curated | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Starting a job without approved plans on site and permits in hand is never a good idea. Mainly due to the risk of a stop work order but also due to possible miscommunication between a client and contractor. I’m not a lawyer either but I speak from personal experience when I say that plans and permits are the responibility of the property owner as that is who the DOB would fine if they were to issue a stop work order. A contract between a client and contractor should always reference that “all work is to conform to approved plans dated….”. The contract should also clearly state who is responsible for permits and what inspections and signoffs are to be performed. Refer back to your contract. If it states that the contractor is responsible then he must perform the work as written in said contract and cannot ask for more money. If the contract does not specify then additional charges may apply.

jockdeboeraia | 13 years and 5 months ago

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I am not an lawyer, but would think if the contractor is licensed he would do work with a permit as that is what is requried. I have lost projects as sometimes the propsective client wants someone who will gloss over what is required. I have a license to protect and so do not take those types of projects. There seems to be plenty of people out that that will look the other way. This guy either needs to get a lawyer or just pay the difference to get the project done on time.

jockdeboeraia | 13 years and 5 months ago

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If they signed the permit application, then I do not see how they can claim they did not know.

greenmountain | 13 years and 5 months ago

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continued: Essentially, this doubling of insurance rates is a subsidy for new construction.  In four years construction comp rates over all have also doubled, so the disincentive to hire subcontractors is rapidly increasing.  Thus, the cost of following the law is rapidly increasing, even as many customers feel now is the time to get the job done less expensively than before.

greenmountain | 13 years and 5 months ago

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I am sorry this happened to you.  It is always reasonable to expect contractors to follow the law.   Your contractor is already obligated to perform the contract and to do so legally – with permits where required.  You are being reasonable and don’t have to make any special instructions to follow the law.  I am not defending your contractor, but I am aware of the difference in cost of doing only one interior trade for an entire year, compared to hiring a licensed plumber one or more times during the year. This may not directly apply to your situation:   Residential contractors are obligated to be licensed.  But, home owners are not obligated to hire licensed contractors.  A licensed contractor can get a Tracking Number from the DOB to “pull” approved permits after an architect or engineer applies for them.  I don’t know how the unlicensed folks do that, but a licensed contractor must be listed on the permit, and must have workers compensation insurance.  Permits expire when insurance policies do.  Unlicensed and uninsured contractors are cheaper.  What about following the law is so difficult and expensive?  Increasingly, workers compensation insurance is the problem.   Next year a wallboard, or tile contractor, and many other interior trades, will pay about 10% of payroll for comp insurance – new construction, commercial, residential, whatever.  Licensed plumbers and electricians have their own insurance, but if a wallboard or tile contractor hires a licensed plumber or electrician, and someone to dust the client’s furniture or sit in a truck to avoid parking tickets, the same contractor’s comp rate will go up from 10 to 20%.  It jumps to the same rate as building a new apartment building, or concrete forms and scaffoldings on the exterior.   Simply by hiring a subcontractor, even if they carry their own insurance, the tile contractor has to pay the furniture duster, and the driver, and every other employee 10% more as if the risk of injury or death doubled, but these workers will never see a penny of their pay raise.

stevecym | 13 years and 5 months ago

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They have to honor the terms of the contract.  You had told them you were going to file and they wrote the contract for the same.  I don’t think there are any if ands or buts about this.  Also, since I know you and have worked for you for three years, I don’t think we have ever had a misunderstanding over details of anything – so I certainly can vouch for the fact that you explain all of your expectations fully. I am sorry this has happen.  I know this is a contractor whom I have recommended to you based on a rec from one of my customers.  In all honesty, it is up to the contractor to know the laws and the responsibilities under those laws and his/her responsibilites to the customer, so you are not at fault here; ie, this is not your job, it is theirs.  If they do not resolve this in an upstanding manner, please let them know that I will not be giving them any more referals (I think they might be too big anyway). I am really sorry we do not do bathrooms as I would have loved to have taken care of these for you as well. Steve