Architect or Full Service Contractor for Brownstone Renovation?
I am renovating a landmarked multifamily brownstone on a very tight budget, and trying to decide whether to use an independent architect plus a GC, or a have a GC do it all. The GC runs a “design to build” firm and works with an architect and expediter. Aside from quality of work, our main priorities are staying within budget and completing the renovation quickly. We are adding a kitchen to the parlor floor, updating bathrooms, updating a rental unit, adding a deck, AC, and new electrical. The house is in good shape but needs cosmetic updating throughout. We know what we want in terms of materials and basic layout. The architect will charge us $15k more than the full service contractor, which is a big difference on our budget. Some have said that using an architect will drive up costs and time, others have said that a good architect saves you money and time in the end. What approach do you recommend, given our primary goals of quality, economics, and efficiency? Please also let me know if you recommend any excellent budget-minded architects and contractors.
bkrenobaby
in Brownstoner Renovation 11 years and 11 months ago
10
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10 replies
benicoinc | 11 years and 11 months ago
Please be aware that a general contractor can not legally provide design services directly to a customer unless the principal of the GC company is a professional engineer or architect, this is a helpful link: [design build faq](http://nysspe.org/2013/03/13/frequently-asked-questions-on-design-build-matters-in-new-york-state/) My two cents: I feel that having an independent designer and builder gives the project owner a better product, even if the GC and Architect are well acquainted.
alastor | 11 years and 11 months ago
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joegc | 11 years and 11 months ago
As a general contractor who works with an architect and without, the only difference is speed. A design build firm can get the process going quicker. Doing each separately slows the process down. If you are on a budget, I would go with a design-build firm. Architects have no clue what construction really costs and suggest things that seem simple but balloon a budget. General contractors, not me, sometimes lack taste and make your place look like a box. Overall, it is about picking good people and the structure of the firm. Joe Lewis CRJ Home Improvememt joelewis@crjhome.com
fawn | 11 years and 11 months ago
I agree with slopefarm and ventilated. My input: Unless you are very savvy on construction, having an architect to be your advocate is very valuable and, in the end, potentially cost saving. The architect is going to make sure the GC and his subs are working according to plan, not cutting corners, and doing quality work. Also, the architect is going to the one to play “bad guy”, which lets you maintain a better working relationship with your GC. There are also going to be a lot of unexpected decisions to make as you open walls and get into the weeds. (To Ventilated’s point, you are going to have overruns and need a safety net). Your GC will have an idea of how address issues that may or may not be the most cost effective or elegant– our GC was very honest but his suggestions were based on a construction viewpoint– sometimes our architect had a better idea on how to solve the problem. And your GC will say “while we are doing X, you may also want to do X”. Your architect will be your sounding board as you decide what additional work is worth it. I’ll add that we had a very good, experienced, and honest GC. Even so, having an architect represent us made the end product much better.
ventilated | 11 years and 11 months ago
If $15k will make a big difference in your budget, you might not be able to afford the renovation you’re envisioning. Your home is in a landmarked district. The deck and AC are LPC permit issues. You want to stay within budget and complete the renovation quickly but there will always be cost overruns and always be delays. It’s not only a question of independent architect with GC vs. a GC alone. Your budget and expectations need a close re-examination.
c_w | 11 years and 11 months ago
I’ve served on both sides of this equation and as far as quality of service or construction is concerned, both approaches are capable of yielding the same results. The key word is capable since there are too many variables involved and some may be subjective. One difference which should always be present in comparing these two approaches is cost, as evident in your own experience. Design-build will centralize or streamline certain operations and processes which boils down to saying it costs less to run one business than two. Make sure you’re comparing apples to apples as much as possible. Is the design-build company subbing out the design? Are they using a design professional, what’s their portfolio or resume? What kind of drawings or visual presentations are they offering beyond a filing set? Construction drawings, details, shop drawings, renderings? Ultimately, you should find several candidates whose design you like, interview them, get multiple estimates or just state your budget and ask how much scope of work they can achieve with it.
metalwork | 11 years and 11 months ago
sloefarm, you said it best.From working on Historic brownstone building for many years, with my experience sloefarm is on the money.
slopefarm | 11 years and 11 months ago
“An architect is only as good as the GC implementing the plans.” I disagree. A good architect can hold GC to stricter standards of workmanship. Much harder for a GC to argue with having to do something over if architect says it must be done. Otherwise you are in the position of supervising the GC yourself. For same reason, I value an architect’s independence over a preexisting relationship with a GC. That said, some archtiects can go overboard and hold GCs to unnecessary standards. it’s a balance. You want a thorough yet practical architect; you want the architect to be indempendent of GC so s/he can be your eyes and ears but to form a good working relationship with GC so job goes smoothly. I would say that the bigger the job,. the more important the architect’s independence becomes.
mozeeatupu | 11 years and 11 months ago
An architect is only as good as the GC implementing the plans. Unless you’re paying top dollar, most GC do not read drawings and gloss over details. Either way, the end product will never be 100% the vision the architect had. If the GC has a relationship with an architect, probably better to go with that as both know each others weaknesses and capabilities and you’re comfortable with both.
bkrenobaby | 11 years and 11 months ago
Also, I meant to ask whether you think having my own independent architect who answers to me (versus the one the GC works with all the time and has an interest in making him more money) is important?