Small Bathrooms & Plumbing Codes

Hi Guys, Question: We own a 2-Family in Bed-Stuy that retains the original configuration on the Parlor and top floor. In the original layout, the bathroom was installed off the hallway in a roughly 4’x6′ space. This space in our house was turned into a closet with the smaller rear room on both levels turned into a large bathroom. We’d like to return the bathrooms to their original locations but in researching options it seems with current codes this may be an impossibility. The fixtures would go where they were originally, I believe the old plumbing work is actually all still in place behind the walls and in the floor, though it would most definitely need to be updated. Is it possible to re-install the bathroom or is it off the table if the toilet waste line cannot physically be 15 inches from the wall (for example). We will be hiring professionals and filing permits for the work etc. but I’m concerned this may be a non-starter. Any insights appreciated on this. fitch

fitch

in About Brooklyn 10 years and 5 months ago

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fitch | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Thank you Cate! I haven’t come across one yet that is that slim but the hunt continues!

cate | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Took some measurements: Our tub is 26 deep/wide (from edge to edge, more or less), and the bathroom is 4 feet deep — so the width of the bathtub takes up about half the depth of the room. (Hope this is making sense.) . AFAIK our tub is not particularly small. It seems plenty roomy and long to me. . BTW, you’ve probably already discovered this but Vintage Tub and Bath has a lot of claw foot tub options to peruse online, and Strom/Sign of the Crab makes petite tubs as well as big ones, if memory serves.

greenmountain | 10 years and 5 months ago

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One is a reproduction of a Victorian vestibule, the other is a tiled vestibule based on an art deco design, installed recently in a 1929 house, but the design is otherwise out of context. I am working on another out-of-context design this time in a Victorian house. I call these: “Game-board tiled floors.” Cracked tiles in newer floors are probably installation failures. Cracked tiles in original historic installations are probably because the substrate is just too old. If the structure under the tile can no longer support the floor, I can not keep tiles from cracking, tenting, or coming loose, so I don’t usually attempt repairs. You may need a new installation over new substrate. I would be happy to come over and look. Thanks for looking at my pictures. You can email me though http://www.brownstoner.com/greemountainconstruction

fitch | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Hi Greenmountain – I checked out your portfolio on your website – very nice! It seems you also restore tile entryways? Did you just replace cracked tiles or are these all-new installations?

catboot | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Unfortunately the tub is gone. We have a regular tub up there, but it’s a bit cramped. There is a petite size claw foot , which I believe is 29″ wide, that should be close enough to the original. Some of my neighbors still have theirs. We were able to get the original sink and marble counter, which was a huge score. Does your bathroom have that weird angled wall next to the door? Shoot me an email at pinkbrownstone(at)gmail(dot)com and I can send you a picture of the fixtures I’ve been able to cobble together thus far.

fitch | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Hey Guys, this is all great information and very much appreciated! Thanks again for taking time to respond to my post. fitch

greenmountain | 10 years and 5 months ago

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I continue to meet home owners considering a swap from small, or clawfoot tub to shower stall, even if in their only bathroom. There are many reasons to do this: toilets move to 15″ on center from walls, sinks are shared by two family members, a bit of storage for towels is captured. About 30 years ago, a change in technique and materials allowed curbless and waterproof showers, just as reliably as any old bathtub and healthier than any old lead pan shower. Code regards shower stalls as fixtures, and licensed plumbers can relocate fixtures in small bathrooms as “Ordinary Plumbing Work” reported monthly, no permits required. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/op128_factsheet.pdf Please also check out photos of my small bathrooms, redesigned and waterproofed with curbless showers at http://www.brownstoner.com/greemountainconstruction

cate | 10 years and 5 months ago

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If permits were pulled for the original job, they should be online at the building department. If you don’t see any permits for plumbing work or the overall job, perhaps consult with a licensed plumber and a licensed contractor to see if they think you could restore the bathroom legally without pulling any new permits at all. If yes, then you have grandfathered conditions and it’s OK that your old bathroom does not meet new code. However, that said, there are rules that say that if you’re remodeling, the old conditions no longer apply….ask these licensed contractors if they could legally do what you are asking. Also re the practical questions: *You will need a lead waste line for the toilet to fit in the small space (no big deal) *You will not be able to fit a new-code plumbing vent for the toilet and the tub, but they are close enough to the main stack that practically speaking it won’t matter *You will not be able to fit any vent whatsoever to the sink (hasn’t been a problem for us, but it’s not to code) Ask the licensed plumber and contractor about all those things. I’ll measure our tub later today and get back to you.

GreenThinker | 10 years and 5 months ago

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http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/bath.design.rules.htm#.VTdVrVL3bCQ

resident2 | 10 years and 5 months ago

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If you cannot find any permits for the prior alteration, you are now just restoring a pre-existing condition.

fitch | 10 years and 5 months ago

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catboot you raise an excellent point regarding the permits – would all of the permits filed be on the BIS online? I have basically exhausted myself looking at all the possible fixtures under the sun trying to figure out what will fit best. Does your top floor still have the original fixtures? How wide is the clawfoot?

catboot | 10 years and 5 months ago

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Hi Fitch, We have the same configuration as you, except our top floor bathroom remains in its original location (the parlor one was moved to the larger room in the back). Like you, we plan on moving it back (and I’m glad we’re not the only crazy people making a bathroom smaller, rather than larger). It seems as your house, like ours, was built as a 2-family (the bathroom location is one of the clues). I think the wall to waste line will fit. The tricky part is to find a teeny tiny tub. The original claw foot tubs in these bathrooms were super small. Also, were permits filed for the move? If not, how would anyone know that you moved them back?