No icard / No C of O

We are about to purchase a brownstone. It has been taxed as a 3 family forever. NYC Dept of Finance website listing says Units: 3 residential. It is listed on the HPD website as a 2 story, 3 A unit structure. I went to HPD on Joralemon and Euclid and they told me there is no icard in existence. There is no C of O. Where else can I look to see if this is a legal 3? If it is recognized as a legal 3 and I am doing renovations (new electric, new roof, new plumbing,) will I have to bring it up to sprinkler code or is just a reno of an existing 3 family that is “grandfathered” in? If I know there are similar questions on this site but I have not seen one exactly like this

firsthouse

in About Brooklyn 10 years and 7 months ago

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firsthouse | 10 years and 6 months ago

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IN case anyone else has this same issue here is the adventure I have been on for the past 3 days. If your icard is not on line on the HPD website you can go to 210 Joralemon street on the 8th floor and see if it exists in a folder at HPD. While you are there on the 8th floor you should also go to DOB and request your block and lot folder as suggested above. If Joralemon doesn’t have your icard they send you to 701 Euclid Avenue where they will look. Neither place had my icard and my block and lot folder did not exist. I then went to 31 Chambers and in one day they pulled my “property card” (which you need to apply for a letter of no objection). THe card even included a nice historical photo of my house!

SewardWasRight | 10 years and 7 months ago

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To my knowledge, being grandfathered is not an existence with the city. If your house was upgraded to a 3-family, even illegally, and the city determined this, then you would legally have to upgrade the house to include the sprinklers. This happened alot after the multiple dwelling law in the late ’20s went into effect. In cases like yours, the house would be inspected, and, once you upgraded the house to a 3-family, including all of the requirements of the law, the DOB, and HPD, then you were “heretofore converted” to some type of 3-family multiple dwelling. Bottom line, to take this question beyond whether you are able to get away with this or not, consider this: if you have three kitchens in the house, rent the place out to three families, then you have a fire big enough for the city to enter, then you’ll have some hefty fines and possibly be hauled to court to answer for these. And this is not to mention what your insurance company insures your house for and, additionally, whether or not they would pay for that fire if you were a 3, but had only the safeguards of a 2…just some grist for the mill…

dazednconfused2 | 10 years and 7 months ago

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I’m with Jock on this one. If the HPD site says it’s a 3-family, then that’s what the DOB will use. Congratulations, you just saved yourself the cost of upgrading to current sprinkler laws.

364house | 10 years and 7 months ago

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Do a “Block and Lot” search at DOB – this will reveal any historical information, drawings and specifications that DOB have on file for the building. I believe in Brooklyn DOB you can only request this search on Tuesdays.

firsthouse | 10 years and 7 months ago

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Without trying to submit plans for a three family to DOB how can we determine what they would consider it to be?

jockdeboeraia | 10 years and 7 months ago

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If DOB considers it a legal 3 family then you would be renovating an existing condition.