Hanging a chandelier from parlor medallion, part 2

Oh, I see from your previous post that there ISN’T a wall switch. In that case a pull-chain could be something of a PITA, but if you’re willing to live with one there are pull-chain switches that can easily be installed in a small hole in the canopy.

BobMarvin

in About Brooklyn 11 years and 4 months ago

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fmb78 | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Hello all. I’m posting this as a follow up to my last inquiry on the topic (seen here: http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/forums/topic/hanging-a-chandelier-from-parlor-medallion/) to see if i can get some additional and more specific information, especially from somebody who’s had this done themselves. (There was also another thread here: http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/forums/topic/hanging-overhead-light-from-plaster-medallion/) I’ve spoken to an often recommended electrician and it was his opinion that there would be a 99% chance that there would be some sort of breaking/disturbing to the plaster medallion in order to install a new box and properly install a chandelier. (And I appreciate his assessment.) However, I’d rather not damage the medallion at all. I removed the existing canopy attached to the medallion to see what’s underneath and the fixture has been wired for electricity some time in the past (see attached photo). It seems that the chandelier could be installed to the existing wiring. But is the problem that using the old wiring that’s in place would be too unsafe? Am I unlikely to find a licensed electrician who would do this? We have a somewhat-unsightly-but-not-too-invasive extension on the rear parlor medallion where a ceiling fan is hanging (see 2nd attached photo). Is the extension housing a new box so as to not have to dig into the medallion? Is something like this another option? Any first-hand information/recommendations/suggestions from anybody who’s had this done? Thanks for any additional input. Frank

fmb78 | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Photo of old wiring in parlor medallion.

fmb78 | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Rear parlor medallion with ceiling fan hanging from an extension.

cate | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Aha! Your medallions are different from some — ours have square opening in the center about the size of a ceramic utility light fixture, so our electricians were able to fit a box in there. They did have to cut the gas pipe to do it, though, and this inadvertently resulted in the loss of our gas line for the third floor stove. With the type of medallion you have, it’s impossible to get a box up there without breaking the medallion. They could rewire (I think) without using a box, but it would be dangerous and not to code. You’re not supposed to have just wiring without a box to safely enclose it — however it would be enclosed in the brass pipe, so perhaps this is just as safe. Though not allowed by code. If I were you, I’d consult with a plaster expert. See if they can pop off the medallion for you and/or reconstruct it later. You may need a plumber to cap the gas pipe correctly. Good luck!

cate | 11 years and 4 months ago

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P.S. To your other question: If a licensed electrician inspects the existing wiring and deems it to be safe, there is no reason s/he couldn’t hook it up to your chandelier. You’re not required to rewire or upgrade to current code every time you install a new light fixture.

BobMarvin | 11 years and 4 months ago

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I’d bet that the box and wiring inside the extension in your second photograph is just like that in the first photo, which also would require some sort of extension to cover it. There are readymade extensions, about 1″ deep, that can be stacked to make up whatever depth you need. They’re held in place by the canopy and can be painted to match the ceiling. FWIW I’ve hung several light fixtures from boxes similar to what you show in my house with no problems. I’ve always done it myself but, in one case, an electrician, who I had hired to solve a different problem, pulled some slack out of the old wiring in one gas box to expose fresh insulation.

BobMarvin | 11 years and 4 months ago

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BTW, whenever I’ve hung a light fixture from an old gas box in my house it’s been to replace an existing WORKING fixture. I suppose more caution would be in order if the box had been unused for period of time and you’ve never known it to work. I might still be tempted to try a light bulb in a pigtail socket, but that’s just me. I consider myself an expert after taking electric shop in 7th grade and haven’t come close to electrocuting myself since 1970 [when I ran a complete electric line inside a wall of my first apartment and ended up with a live shower curtain rod :-)]

fmb78 | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Thanks for your insight. I’m going to see if a) using one of those extender-boxes will be viable or b) if a plaster worker may be able to help me out. If I really wanted to get crazy, is going through the floor above the ceiling an option to install a new, up-to-code box and wiring without disturbing the plaster? Do people do this? Thanks in advance for any other words of wisdom. Frank

Rick | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Hello Frank, you may want to talk to a few more electricians. Your situation is not unusual. You have an old gas pipe and no box. Many of us have that set up and hang fixtures off the gas pipe. It’s very tricky to get a box mounted in that plaster without damage. I would bet that you do have power but no switch leg. So you would need to live with a pull chain or a remote in a canopy.

BobMarvin | 11 years and 4 months ago

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“You have an old gas pipe and no box” Although it’s hard to see in the photograph there may be an old round “gas box” threaded around the pipe. That’s what I have in my house.

Lurker | 11 years and 4 months ago

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We have the same and those old gas pipes can handle a lot of weight and so are sturdy if you don’t mind having the extension. But you have to be careful when monkeying with them–though they’re meant to be capped, often they aren’t properly, or there’s a branch somewhere hidden, so gas is actually still flowing in there. So don’t go trying to take off the cap. BTW as a little insurance, you could pay a plasterer to come and take a rubber mold of your medallion, so that if anything happens now or in the future you could always replace it with another casting.

fmb78 | 11 years and 4 months ago

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Thanks once again, all. From what I gather, it seems that this can be done if I can find an architecturally/historically sympathetic electrician. Assuming such a person exists, does anybody have any recommendations I can get in touch with? Thanks! Frank

BobMarvin | 11 years and 4 months ago

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    ["display_name"]=>
    string(10) "Bob Marvin"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(802)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Forums"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(5) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Forums"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

IF there’s current in the existing wires and if there’s a wall switch [or, if not, if you’re willing to live with a pull-chain switch on the fixture] I can’t see why you need an electrician. It’s a DIY job, or a job for a handyman. If you want a new box and new wiring, that’s a different matter.