Wood Floor replacement costs
We have, unfortunately, “cheaped out” in the past on some home renovation projects on which we felt we could reasonably save some money, and went on to regret it. I don’t want to make same mistake, but also don’t want to spend huge bucks over what is necessary to have a nice quality job. We…
We have, unfortunately, “cheaped out” in the past on some home renovation projects on which we felt we could reasonably save some money, and went on to regret it. I don’t want to make same mistake, but also don’t want to spend huge bucks over what is necessary to have a nice quality job. We are looking to replace about 2,000 sq. feet of old, scuffed, mismatched, 2 1/4″, 100+ year old Maple floors (and quite probably quite a bit of squeaky pine subflooring as well) with 5 or 6″ pre-finished hardwood – don’t know what kind yet. We’ve had a few estimates, and they are hugely discrepant. Anywhere from 10.00 per sq. foot, all in, from LL, to $22.00 per sq. foot for really high quality wood from a company who received good reviews in the Franklin Report (and I liked and trusted him btw, but that’s a BIG number!) My question is, what can one reasonably expect to pay for a really nice job?
Hope you don’t mind my coming in on this one more time: pay particular attention to finishes; they have changed a lot over the years and there are many more out there. When I first started doing floors in the mid 80’s it was minwax and Johnson Gym Floor Finish (we did gyms). Today, I do not use Minwax. I spend time trying to ascertain certain details from the customer: do they like the amber color of oil, how fast does this space have to be dry and usable (oil dries slow), and will there be any demanding conditions put on the floor (kids on roller skates). a lot of buildings don’t want people using oil finishes, so you must use water base; there is nothing wrong with that and a little amber dye can be added to the finish to tint it.
For a long time, people were concerned that water base finishes did not hold up as good as oil. Well, things have changed. The spectrum of water base finishes runs from stuff costing $40 per gallon (a little more than oil finish) to $150 per gallon with a cross link (a hardener like epoxys use); we put one of these in an apt in Manhattan and 4 days after it was down rolled a piano across the floor; not a mark in the finish.
Also, ask them how many times they will screen the floor during the finishing. Some people screen it off once, after the first coat. Others screen with each coat getting progressivly finer down to 150 or 180 grit. The floor I saw that Verrazano did looked like it had been screened with each coat; it shows in the final product.
These things will have an impact on the cost and an impact on the finished product.
Steve
Steve,
Amen on the improper use of drywall screws.
The tops of joists that are chewed up by the prying of old subfloor removal, requires 3″ or 3.5″ decking screws to get any sort of bite. If we have new sisters, we use 2″ decking screws. But I believe the construction adhesive holds the most. The screws pull the plywood down, but the glue gives the rigidity.
Drywall screws “pop”, they are not designed to fasten structural members.
Bruce
A note on my comment above. I have always said that I would remain professional and not comment on things other people say on here. But I had to do that. It used to happen – not anymore because of where I am working – that I would go on quotes and potential customers would try to tell me they heard it was ok to do something a certain way and I would spend more time and energy trying to sell that job by trying to overcome the misinformation they had heard. I would write the quote and they would go with someone else who fed them what they wanted to hear for less money anyway.
I can’t tell you how many people called me back to correct something that the other contractor had done; they can be very humble about the error of their ways. I would remain professional and not comment or say I told you so – but that never not made me feel any better. We do not make a living fixing other people’s mistakes; we make a living doing the initial job. When people spread misinformation about what goes into what we do for a living, it makes it harder for us to do our jobs; that is sell, build, and install quality product (the deck screws I mention in the above post are about 5 times more expensive than drywall screws). Not only do we have the misinformation to compete against, but we have to compete against a litany of contractors out there who run their businesses that way as well – and by undercutting prices.
With respect to the floor, which is where this post began, you will want to pick some of the better known companies you see recommended on this site. I know people sometimes complain about Verrazano, but I have seen their work in a customer’s house and it is good. Sullivan Floors is another top rated company. They did not get their reputations overnight or by accident.
I would call them and ask them what they think should be done – the extent of the prep work. I know why customers are reluctant to ask a contractor what needs to be done because they are afraid the contractor will sell them a bill of goods they don’t need. Try to ascertain how busy that contractor is – if he is busy and has to either make you wait or work you into a schedule, he is going to sell you only what you need to do the job right; not more, not less.
Once you have quotes, compare them carefully. Check to see that you are comparing apples to apples. If you find oranges, call the contractor and see why he included oranges and why those oranges cost more; there may be a very good reason. Of course, you need detail to do this and some people don’t include detail in quotes. Since I use top quality products, I always include brand names; if the contractors don’t include the detail call them and ask them for it; if they are at the top of their game, it behooves them to provide it. When you get the brand names of products such as adhesives and finishes, google them and read what people say about them; there are professional forums out there where contractors pass advice and answer questions; a great resource to read what people who have been doing this since before I was born have to say about how things should be done.
I hope I have been helpful.
Steve
just a note on why it is better to pay more for something:
As Adamc1303 notes above, you should not pay more than $5.00 sf for install and that “they need to bang the nails in” and “they can then use regular black drywall screws…”
First, it is possible that it can take two men a day to put all of the nails down. is that coming out of the $5.00 per sf?
Second. I see “carpenters” all over this city use drywall screws to hang cabinets, join studs, hold down flooring, hold covers on electrical boxes, hold decks together. I also hear horror stories about cabinets falling down(none of mine) because the drywall screws cracked and I see broken drywall screws on decks and used to close electrical boxes that cannot properly be put back together because someone thought a drywall screw was the right thing for that too.
Drywall screws are drywall screws – that is why they call them that. If the subfloor is put down with drywall screws, there is a good chance that shifts in load on the floor will crack the drywall screws, leaving you with squeaky floors in a few years. But does the contractor care? no, he got his $5.00 per sf and is long gone.
For many applications now, we don’t even use wood screws anymore; they are not made like they used to be. We spend the money on heavy duty, square drive deck screws. I am not saying they have to be put on that floor, but I am saying:
You get what you pay for.
Steve
Mopar,
If the old pine sub-floor is excellent, you could try renailing it extensively to the joists.
Depending on how old your home is, your pine is probably fastened with cut nails, that have loosened over time. What you are trying to achieve is monoque, engineering speak for single layer integrity. The entire floor gains its rigidity and un-bounce? from being part of one unit.
I have always suspected that the construction adhesive that holds the new plywood contributes more than the screws. Unfortunately, the joists themselves at this point are deflected and springy. That strong feeling you get from new plywood is due to the weight of your step being distributed over adjacent joists, both forward and back, but also left to right.
We often plan on laying the sub-floor on the joists, but laying the Hilti laser on the floor convinces us that we are better off sandwiching with sisters and through bolting. We are always surprised at how butchered the old joists are, due to installations over the years of gas pipes (for lighting), waste lines, you name it. The sisters really add strength where there was none before.
It also gives you the chance to flatten and level floors.
Maybe I am more sensitive to bounce in a floor as I am over 200lbs??
Hm….is a plywood subfloor necessary? Our floors (original) are old pine nailed directly on the joists. In one room we are planning to replace the floors and don’t know if we should do it the old way or the new way.
Noklilissa,
I recognize your name as a regular poster.
Contact me off line to see if we can help you out.
bruce at jerseydata.net
There is absolutely no reason you should pay so much money for this. removing a floor is very quick a few guys can do it in a day. Then they need to remover or bang in the nails into the subfloor so they are flat. They can use regular black drywall screws afer and just screw down as much of the subfloor as possible to eliminate any squeeking. You then chose the wood you want and pay no more then $5.00 PSF for instaltion (assuming you are going with a starigh wall to wall pattern) Herringbone, borders and other patterns will cost more to lay and also have more waste from the wood.
Noki – Did you see the earlier posting today from a guy who wants old flooring regardless of the state it’s in & will take it up & haul if for you?