Thinking of Buying A House with A Mother-Daughter Apt.
We’ve fallen in love with a spacious, detached, one-family house (not landmarked) in Brooklyn that has what the realtor describes as a “mother-daughter†apartment on the third floor. It seems clear that the apartment has been rented in the past (it has a stove, which I understand is not permitted in a mother-daughter), though the…
We’ve fallen in love with a spacious, detached, one-family house (not landmarked) in Brooklyn that has what the realtor describes as a “mother-daughter†apartment on the third floor. It seems clear that the apartment has been rented in the past (it has a stove, which I understand is not permitted in a mother-daughter), though the house is listed as a one-family. The apartment has a separate entrance and separate staircase. There is more than enough room for us on the other two floors of the house, and unless we can rent out the “mother-daughter†apartment, we can’t afford to buy this place.
Two questions: First, what might be the consequences of renting out this apartment (in Flatbush), given that it doesn’t seem to be legal? What are the penalties if an owner is caught renting an illegal apartment? We have seen so many houses with illegal apartments, it seems the city doesn’t really enforce these rules, but we’re not used to being lawbreakers.
Second, if we were to upgrade the kitchen of the “mother-daughter†apartment, in order to rent it out, not moving plumbing or anything, just replacing old cabinets and appliances and flooring, would we need to get a permit, and if so, would THAT cause us problems with the DOB?
Thanks for your help.
Not that this is your concern, but I always thought a mother-daughter was a house that had a separate (detached), legal apartment or small house, like in the back… In other cities, where this is more common, I’m pretty sure that is what is meant.
It depends on the area of Flatbush, but I’m not sure zoning allows for 2 families in all neighborhoods… you may not be able to “make it legal” two family even if you want to. Might want to check that too–Mary Kay Gallagher would know and probably some on this forum.
If it’s the listing I think it might be, I see it marketed as a “Single Family House” and DOB shows “Department of Finance Building Classification: A1-1 FAMILY DWELLING”
but there’s no CofO on file (which is common for old houses).
So … does the DOF classification make the “mother daughter” kitchen illegal, even though there’s no CofO ?
I know of another house where the DOF classification is A1-1 and the CofO classification is 2-families.
I will add that DOB is very serious about cracking down on illegal apartments. All it takes is one person calling and they will most likley keep coming. If possible think about converting to a two family.
As cmu notes, filing for a permit to upgrade a “mother daughter” kitchen doesn’t make sense – unless you’re prepared to go all the way and make it a legit 2-family.
I found a video of nyc dob inspecting illegal apartments that barc referred to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8y5GHnQk3Y
I would agree with northofditmas and say relax, people do this all over Flatbush/Ditmas. Just make sure it’s safe & work done is up to code, not like one of those dumps in Queens. The purpose of DOB going after illegal apartments is not just to bust people’s chops, it’s to prevent unsafe conditions for residents & the fire department. You’ll hear stories about the tenant from hell that can come from 100% kosher apartments as well as “mother daughter” or illegal apartments. Be very careful about who you rent to, treat them well and you’ll be ok.
This is the sort question that, if you have to ask, you probably should not do be doing. The fact that you’re asking about a permit to upgrade an illegal kitchen shows some naivete.
That said, there are thousands of people who do exactly what you’re proposing; the vast majority of them have no problems. Probably 99% of tenants would accept a good deal and if you treat them right, will not shaft you. Anecdotal stuff like above is not statistically significant…but, of course if it happens to you, you will kick yourself from not doing things right.
Where I live in PS, nobody is likely to call 311 either, there’s been plenty of work done around here.
Re consulting your re lawyer…what’s he going to say? That you can ignore the legalisms? Consult your own risk aversion level.
there is no such thing as a “mother / daughter” apartment in NYC. if the c of o is not for a 2-family house, then it is illegal.
also, the dob recently did a sting operation specifically looking for illegal rentals. details are on the dob website. they know they are out there, and they are looking for them.
years ago i worked with a guy who owned a house on dahill (street? road?), in brooklyn. all the houses on the street were being used as 2 families. when he asked the tenant to leave so he could move his parents in, she said, “sorry the house is being used illegally, i am staying put.” she was right, it was an illegal situation. i took him almost a year to get her out. in the mean time … she paid no rent.
Relox. About half of the houses in Flatbush/Ditmas Park have an illegal basement or attic apartment. Outside of the landmarked districts most interior construction is done without permits. The owners tend to do major interior renovations every 30 years. Everyone does it so unlike Park Slope you don’t need to fear your neighbors calling 311.
I would say don’t buy it if you need to count on income from the illegal apt. As others noted, a deadbeat tenant could decide not to pay and you have little recourse. Some people feel they are entitled to live in your house rent free if they discover that you are breaking the rules by renting the space. If that would just be a hassle then it’s up to you but if that situation could lead to a foreclosure of your home then it’s really not something you want to risk. Consult your real estate lawyer.