Proper Etiquette with Contractor
I am new to the dance and I would like to get some advice on what is the proper way to negotiate with a general contracter regarding a big complicated renovation at a house. I saw two contractors so far and one says he needs a minimum of x grand for the bathroom and the…
I am new to the dance and I would like to get some advice on what is the proper way to negotiate with a general contracter regarding a big complicated renovation at a house. I saw two contractors so far and one says he needs a minimum of x grand for the bathroom and the other says he can do it for half that amount. One says he can fix the old hardwood floor and the other says it will look like crap and I should tile it. One says he can paint over the old kitchen formica cabinets and the other says says it will not work. They both have very different opinions and prices about everything. Also, when I asked one to give me a breakdown on the cost of each job he says he can do it all for a certain amount but if I make him break it down it will cost twice the amount. Is this how it works? Is it not proper to expect a price breakdown for each job big to small? Also, they both want the entire job while I feel like farming off some aspects of it to different people if I can get a better quote on windows or floors for instance from someone.
talking to contractors, people who have done renos, doing research on design, fixtures, appliances, material prices, and on and on… will only help you make and educated decision on who to hire and if there worth the price they will charge. Contractor or architect. Do not hire an architect to do this for you. Steer your own boat. After hiring an architect, tell him what to do, you are the boss. When it comes to electrical and plumbing, make sure to get some bids from some companies you found from your own research as well as who the architect brings to the table. You can draw your own plans. The more you have on paper the better.
Wait a minute! There’s not enough information in the original post to determine whether this is a job that actually requires an architect and permits. Like the information the contractors gave, the post is vague. Getting all invested in an architect and owner’s rep and so on is pointless if the poster doesn’t actually know what they want, or can’t communicate it clearly.
If you communicate what you want done very clearly, then the contractors will start giving information that’s very similar, and you’ll be able to compare prices and techniques.
If you don’t know what you want, stop. Do research
(ie, read books about wood flooring and tiling until you find out whether it’s a good idea to fix the floor or tile over it)
and draw, draw draw until you know exactly what you want.
You may find that you need an architect and so on–that you don’t care to become conversant enough or understand the details of the job enough. If so, you will be in a position to tell these reps exactly what you want. This is invaluable. Owner’s reps and architects are not psychic–they need you to communicate exactly what you want as much as a contractor does. But you’ll also be in a position to act as your own GC after this process if you find that’s the more appropriate route. You’ll have the power to make your own decisions.
Or to answer your question, which was put in terms of etiquette, the proper etiquette in this scenario is to make sure nobody’s ever jerking anyone around or making them guess about anything. As other posters have mentioned, you need itemized bids, you need to understand why things are happening, and you need to be able to ask for all these things without wringing your hands. But you also need to be giving the contractors the same information and not depending on them to figure out what to do in the first place.
a really basic point that has been missed here is that you cannot do a “big complicated” renovation anywhere in the five boroughs without stamped and filed architectural plans filed with the department of buildings…it is foolish to even attempt to do this, and you would instantly be liable for a minimum fine of $5000 for working without a permit ..ire an architect first, talk to contractors second
i have been fortunate to do three projects (2 residential/one business) with the same architect who was originally recommended by a friend. the architect is key. mine had his own people for both GC and woodworking. i have used the contractor for small projects without the architect too, and it’s been a godsend.
try to get architect referrals. mine is backlogged right now and couldn’t do this, but there are great people out there. his/her insight will probably answer a lot of feasibility and budget questions prior to even getting bids from the contractor.
good luck.
Hmmmmm, hire honest lawyer for swindling Architect…
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post where every single responder agreed…I hope the OP is smart enough to listen.
Yes, as everyone is saying, if “big and complicated”, you should hire an architect to do necessary drawings and write up full scope of work. Without it, no credible and experienced contractor can possibly give you an accurate price – at best they’re guessing, and probably not accurately. Later, if one thing changes or some unforeseen issue comes up, you’ll be change ordered to death. Cost will rise disproportionately and you’ll have spent well more on cost overruns than on a qualified design professional. Architect can assess the feasibility of your intentions, review bids and give you solid advice on contractor selection. Please sign a contract with the contractor, check his license and references, and make sure he has liability insurance well in excess of your project costs. I’ve never had a client hire an attorney at the outset to review bids. Review contracts, yes, but bids seems outside their purview. If you vet your professionals, you’ll be unlikely to have hired someone who sees you as a “mark.” I don’t see the usefulness of paying attorneys fees for bid negotiation, that’s part of architect’s scope of service.
You don’t need an attorney for a job like this, just an architect. They will draw up the contracts and they will recommend contractors and they will pull your permits and guide you through the process. Also, contractors will take your job seriously and give you a better price knowing they won’t have to be dealing with a nutty owner/novice.
Ever hear of a “pita” surcharge?
that’s what most contractors tack on when they have to deal directly with owners.
“(pain in the ass)”
Agree with slopefarm, but would throw an attorney into the mix. When you are going to spend what sounds like hundreds of thousands of dollars on a renovation it is worth paying a few of those thousands (it won’t be too expensive) to an attorney experienced in these kinds of contracts. An attorney experienced in this kind of work will be able to steer you clear of the worst in the industry and may in fact steer you towards the best. Remember the attorneys are the ones who have to sort mess out after the GC and architect have swindled you, it is much, much cheaper to go to your attorney at the outset and say, I want to renovate my building, where should I start. The attorney will also vet all the contracts. If the GC and Architect have to deal with your attorney as matter of course, they will know that you are not going to be an easy mark.