Noisy Neigbors
It’s an age-old problem, I know, but I want some fresh advice, if anyone has any. We’ve lived in our co-op since January, 2008. Since that time, we’ve been dealing with very loud upstairs neighbors. They yell, stomp, and move furniture at all hours of the night and its a rare weekend when we’re not…
It’s an age-old problem, I know, but I want some fresh advice, if anyone has any.
We’ve lived in our co-op since January, 2008. Since that time, we’ve been dealing with very loud upstairs neighbors. They yell, stomp, and move furniture at all hours of the night and its a rare weekend when we’re not kept up past 1 AM or woken up at 5 AM. Weeknights are no better. It’s a pair of sisters living in a one bedroom. One keeps strange work hours which is contributing to the noise at odd times.
We’ve politely asked them to keep the noise level down or to at least move their loud conversations from the back room into the front when it’s late at night, but they have been extremely hostile to our requests. When we go upstairs to complain, they come to the door, but rarely answer it, even though we can hear them approach the door, and see them look through the peephole. On the rare occasion when they answer, they scream at us, telling us to “go the f*ck away,” calling my wife a b*tch and telling us to die. We never stoop to their level, staying civil and walking away. We’ve left notes or letters, but they usually wind up crumpled up at our door. A letter sent via certified mail was refused upon delivery. We’ve kept a noise log of every occurrence since the summer. We have begun the process of talking to other neighbors — the person who lives above them for example — in the hopes of getting more witnesses.
Our co-op board is doing the bare minimum to help us. They enforced the 80% floor covering rule with these owners, but the problem has not gone away. They have sent them letters reminding them of the building’s noise policy — no loud noise, tv or radio after 11 PM and before 8 AM — but it hasn’t changed anything. The co-op board president has heard the noise in our apartment, as we woke her up at 5 AM on a Saturday to get her as a witness.
However, other than sending them letters, the co-op board refuses to talk directly to the residents. The board president has said she doesn’t want her “team” to get directly involved. At other times when the board president comes over to potentially witness the noise, she winds up talking about random stuff — pictures on our wall, a book on our nightstand — instead of really listening. (At 3 in the morning, I’m not interested in discussing literature.) We’re especially distressed because members of the board seem to have known that these women have been a problem for years before we moved in. (Ironic that at our co-op board meeting we were asked what kind of hours we kept and whether or not we took our shoes off when we came home, yet no one mentioned these crazies to us.)
We don’t want to get a lawyer or call the police, at least not yet. We feel that at the very least, the co-op board should arrange a mediated meeting between us and our upstairs neighbors, thinking that this is a sensible next step. It’s win-win, in our opinion. If they show up and act like crazy people, we’ll have the full board as a witness. If they don’t show up, it shows that we made a good faith effort to resolve this in a civil manner before resorting to more extreme measures.
The only problem is that the board doesn’t want to do this.
So, any advice? Short of continuing to suffer and building a case until we have enough evidence to sue, what can we do? Anyone have good experience with a lawyer who specializes in this kind of situation?
Dear Ditmas,
Community mediation is available for free in Brooklyn from the Safe Horizon Mediation Program. You can initiate your own case, with or without the board: (718) 834-6671 or http://www.safehorizon.org/mediation.
All the best.
Ah, yeah. Guess that won’t work.
My wife and I are in a one-bedroom. It’s a bit beside the point, though, as we didn’t buy our apartment to not be able to sleep in the bedroom. Additionally, the people who live below us are two sisters. One sleeps in the front room, one in the back room. So they make noise at different times. It would make no difference.
Sounds terrible. I have one last-ditch practical suggestion: If you slept in another room, would it be any quieter?
Thanks, Iris. We are going to direct our attorney to see if he can determine what the board knew, when they knew it, and what, if any, obligation they or the seller had to tell us before our offer was accepted.
I have told the board that I don’t want to call the police, but while they are having meetings and writing letters, we are facing the more immediate crisis of not being able to sleep, which means we have to take action when possible. Calling the police is a last resort, but it will also provide evidence if we need it down the road.
Good steps, Ditmas. But just a warning…. Based on what you said in your original post (and my past experience), Boards are very resistent to pursuing the true resolution to this problem, which would be to either cancel your neighbor’s tenancy or require them to soundproof. Don’t be falsely assuaged by the Board president’s willingness to experience your problem, and if anyone complains about the police coming at 3 a.m. a couple of times, point out that this could’ve been avoided if the Board had taken action. When you do speak to an attorney, you should also make sure to mention that you weren’t informed about this problem before you purchased your shares and moved in. I wish you luck.
So far I don’t think that the building’s board or management co. sees us as a problem. We have a friend on the board who is on our side, as are others. In fact, there is a long history with our neighbors and previous owners and neighbors have had similar problems. Alas, this was not on record before, and no one told us about it before we finalized our offer to purchase.
The coop board president offered to come over because I believe she wants to avoid a situation where the police are coming over at 3 AM, which would make other people unhappy.
We’re going to get a lawyer. I spoke to the local precinct and the officer said to call 311 a few times over the next few weeks.
We’ll probably stop paying our maintenance if a laywer confirms that it’s the right track for us.
Thanks for the advice!
I lived under terribly noisy and destructive neighbors for years and years, and, like your situation, the co-op board refused to help. In fact, after I hired an attorney to write a few letters to the board, they seemed even more reluctant to do anything and I was perceived as a troublemaker. I do think you need to get an attorney involved however, and you probably should stop paying your maintenance until the situation is resolved. (Even though my attorney advised I stop paying, I didn’t. It was a very gossipy building and I didn’t want to encourage every shareholder to brand me as a troublemaker.)
You should also know that all your letters and communications with the Board will also be on record if you decide to sell and move. It will scare your buyers. In my case, I got lucky and the people upstairs sold before I did, otherwise it would’ve been a nightmare–and that was when the market was good.
Start calling the police and get a lawyer. Filming might be a good idea, but I’d want advice from an attorney before I started doing that.
What an unfortunate situation. Will it be cheaper to sue them about ceiling damage than just fixing it? Also how often have you called the coop president to your house at 3 am? You causally mention that she came over and wasn’t all that focused on the noise. I am amazed she came over at all. Could it be that you are viewed by others in the building in a less than favorable light and they are just hoping you move out?