heat problem and tenants rights
This story is long but my question is mostly not what to do to fix the problem but rather of how to handle tenants. When they moved we had one room (small bedroom) that was colder then other rooms. We warned them about this problem but they put kids in this room. Window in this…
This story is long but my question is mostly not what to do to fix the problem but rather of how to handle tenants.
When they moved we had one room (small bedroom) that was colder then other rooms. We warned them about this problem but they put kids in this room. Window in this room is relatively new, contractor replaced it 5 years ago, but window is not the best or most expensive. Last winter they supplemented heat with electrical heater ( room is 7X14, not very big ) and we decided to replace radiator. We thought that radiator was the main problem. We replaced radiator this season. Plumber did all calculations and put radiator that is lightly bigger than suggested for this size of the room.
Initially everything was fine. But then they started to complain about heat again. We keep 72 during day and hiked to 75 when they complained. We also checked radiator. Radiator is as hot as other radiators in this apartment! But room is really cooler. They claim that it is 53 during night but of course I did not check the temperature.
We rise heat every day when they complain. It is really hot in our apartment and in apartment on the second floor.
Third floor ( problem apartment ) is slightly cooler but not cold. I have a problem going there with a thermometer. I am afraid it will look like I do not believe our tenants and want to start an argument war. My guest it is around 69-70 degrees. But small bedroom is colder. We are not going to argue on that, we are looking for a solution.
I do not want to fight with my tenants, I completely understand that she want her kids to be warm. I suggested to go and insulate window. They put plastic on window but did not do a good job. I made an appointment to do this but then I had to cancel: I had to take my daughter to the doctor instead of sending her to school and then school break started. I promised to do this next Monday when my child will be back to school. But I understand that problem may be much deeper and insulating window is not going to fix it. May be we will have to insulate roof.
Also, we replaced front side windows in each apartment this fall. New windows are Marvin and suppose to be very efficient. So, as you see we are working on this.
But since I canceled my “insulation appointment” last Tuesday I got calls every day to rise heat. We keep now heat at 74-76 with thermostat in our apartment. I spent several late hours at night during this week in second floor apartment staining new windows ( as tenants went on vacation) and it was very hot on a second floor.
Finally today I gave up and after I got call from my 3rd floor tenant again to raise heat ( it was 73 degrees on my thermostat) and I softly suggested that they can sometimes use space heater.
I told her that we are really looking at solution, that I will go and insulate her window next Monday and my plumber is going to come over that Monday ( I made an appointment already) but I really overheat the whole house because of this small room ( other room in her apartment are just fine). I told her that I hiked heat to 76 now but may be she should consider using space heater from time to time.
She is not the nicest person to deal with. Last year, when she complained about heat and that she has a cold we did what we could rising heat and I brought her herbal tea. Several days later I was cleaning stairs and I found this box of tea thrown in a hallway.
This time she was not very nice either. She told me that she is not going to use space heater again. She told me that she spent extra $200 each months last year on electricity ( I do not know, we used to have all electrical heat in out former place and it cost us about $400 to heat triplex completely, including hot water and cooking during winter monthly. She had to warm up just one small room in addition to regular if not adequate heat.)
She complained that her children are thick from cold. I was very tempted to mention that it is not fair to blame low heat in apartment if toddlers do not wear hats outside. I could only imagine where our conversation would go after that, so, I kept it to myself.
She told me that she is not going to discuss heat problem with me again and she is passing this issue to her husband. He called me after that and wanted to come over to discuss this in person. He will e back from work in an hour.
Now I want your suggestions on how to handle this. I really want to fix this problem. We spent money on radiator replacement, we spent small fortune on new windows. But is this normal to just refuse to use space heater in this room till we find what is wrong? As I mentioned we can do at least something about this next Monday.
What should be my position during this conversation. I am trying to be really nice to my tenants but I had been taken advantage not once because of this.
ppwqall: if installing new radiator for room ($400 total), installing new windows (3K for 3 windows only for this apartment), rising heat above all city limits and paying extra money for this does not count – then we as landlords are not trying to resolve this issue.
We are working on this. This apartment is colder is general then the rest of the house. We told tenants about this before we rented apartment. Today tenant brought his log of temperature reading. It was one day when temperature was extremely low: 53 degrees for several hours one night. Mostly it was in high fifties/low sixties during most of the time in this room and low sixties/high sixties in the rest of the apartment.
Which is low, I absolutely agree. But we are not just sitting and doing nothing except collecting rent either. Today during our conversation tenant confirmed that radiator in that small cold room seems to be the hottest to the touch. I checked this room myself and there no visible holes or drafts except of somewhat drafty window ( but NOT as drafty as my own old window that still awaits replacement).
Also, we had some of our own radiators removed in our apartment that is similar to theirs but on the first floor. We kept only 3 radiators and 3rd floor apartment has 6.
What i am trying to tell is that we are doing all the right things and still did not resolve problem completely. our plumber will be back from vacation next Monday and will come over to check the whole system.
What I suggested that they can use space heater till this time and we will keep heat higher, but not uncomfortably high (lower then 78-77).
ppwqall: if installing new radiator for room ($400 total), installing new windows (3K for 3 windows only for this apartment), rising heat above all city limits and paying extra money for this does not count – then we as landlords are not trying to resolve this issue.
We are working on this. This apartment is colder is general then the rest of the house. We told tenants about this before we rented apartment. Today tenant brought his log of temperature reading. It was one day when temperature was extremely low: 53 degrees for several hours one night. Mostly it was in high fifties/low sixties during most of the time in this room and low sixties/high sixties in the rest of the apartment.
Which is low, I absolutely agree. But we are not just sitting and doing nothing except collecting rent either. Today during our conversation tenant confirmed that radiator in that small cold room seems to be the hottest to the touch. I checked this room myself and there no visible holes or drafts except of somewhat drafty window ( but as drafty as my own old window that still awaits replacement).
Also, we had some of our own radiators removed in our apartment that is similar to theirs but on the first floor. We kept only 3 radiators and 3rd floor apartment has 6.
What i am trying to tell is that we are doing all the right things and still did not resolve problem completely. our plumber will be back from vacation next Monday and will come over to check the whole system.
What I suggested that they can use space heater till this time and we will keep heat higher, but not uncomfortably high (lower then 78-77).
I think vanburenproud gave you great advice. As per NYC heating code: “During heat season, residential owners with tenants are required by law to maintain an indoor temperature of at least 68 degrees Fahrenheit between 6:00 A.M. and 10:00 P.M. when the outdoor temperature falls below 55 degrees. Between 10:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M., building owners must maintain an indoor temperature of 55 degrees when the outside temperature falls below 40 degrees.”
I would buy something like this for $50: http://www.presentsforyou.com/chin00with1.html?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=00852
Install the sensors in her apt, put the reader in your apt and verify the temps over the next week or two (especially if we get another cold snap). The thermometer in the link even says it can record min and max temperatures. So you don’t even have to wake up in the middle of the night.
Perhaps the tenant has a reason for being unhappy? If the temperature in the room is truly 53 degrees and the landlord hasn’t resolved the issue in over a year, she has a valid complaint and giving her some tea seems like a slap in the face. I think that sometimes landlords just want to collect their rent check and not deal with issues, but as a tenant if I’m paying you money to live in your apartment every month, you have to live up to your end of the bargain and ensure its livable. A 53 degree bedroom is not acceptable. I agree with others that your first step needs to be to verify the temperature in that room. If it’s truly that cold, you need to come up with a solution ASAP.
Excellent advice, vbp. OP, you have to get this on an objective basis. If you’re setting heat at 75 (7 deg above what we have!) you’re spending a large amount of money to keep one difficult person still unhappy.
It sounds like the tenant is actively taking advantage of your nice-but-haphazard resolution style in which your primary goal seems to be Convincing Her That You Are A Nice Guy.
While this is a common resolution style for humans in general, it’s a recipe for continued conflict in a tenant-landlord situation. You are giving her a lot of power because you are looking for her approval, and hoping that the approval makes up for the fact that the problem is somewhat relative–warm to some is too cold for others. She seems kind of hard-wired to take that power and run with it. The warmth of the apartment probably isn’t the issue for her anymore. She’s probably just trying to make you dance.
With that in mind, I would do whatever it takes to stop being nice and stop being haphazard in resolving the problem. Take away all her power by deciding exactly how you define the problem, how you are going to resolve the problem if it exists, and how you are going to deal with continued complaints. Then follow through mechanically, with no tea, no complaints, no daughter interruptions and no excuses, like it’s a job.
Here’s how I would do that:
1. Decide on a number of degrees that you think resolves the problem. She sounds awful, so I would choose the 68 degrees required by law and not a single degree more.
2. Make sure you are achieving that Goal Temperature by measuring the temperature in the apartment.
3. Follow through on insulating the window with plastic because you said you would.
3. Then write a letter that kindly, clearly and *perfunctorily* states what you are required to do, what you have done, and that you consider the problem resolved.
4. In this letter, also state clearly that because temperature is a somewhat relative sensation, future complaints will be resolved by determining the actual temperature with a thermometer and taking action to achieve temperature X.
5. Do not engage tenant in any other way about this issue. If she whines, makes passive-aggressive comments, asks her kids to complain for her, or otherwise tries to game you, stand like a stone and repeat the goal temperature to yourself in your head with a small smile on your relaxed, placid face.
When she complains again, don’t do anything but the four steps. Don’t turn it into a friendliness contest by trying to be nice when she complains. Don’t give her tea. Don’t get emotional–aim to be extremely perfunctory about this issue, so that there is nothing for her to latch onto but the *actual temperature in the apartment*, the *Goal Temperature*, and the difference between the two.
Expect it to get worse before it gets better. You are basically training her to stop doing something that you have in the past made really rewarding for her, so she’s going to push your buttons like mad before she figures out it doesn’t work anymore.
Good luck!
first of all , what kind of heat do you have…im assuming 1 pipe steam, but i could be wrong…get a heating professional to change the sizing on the air vents on the radiators if this is the case…it sounds like your system is severely imbalanced…and btw, your tenants just want to be comfortable… do not turn it into something personal
the rest of the apartment on the 3rd floor is not very warm, about 69 degrees, but it is still colder in this small room.
Based on the numbers that I saw on this Forum I would assume that crawl space insulation would cost me about $1500-$2000 for a 65X20 roof. does it sound right?
Who would do the right job (so that ceiling will not collapse on my tenants and roof will not be damaged)? Is it doable during winter time ( when it is not cold)?