heat problem and tenants rights
This story is long but my question is mostly not what to do to fix the problem but rather of how to handle tenants. When they moved we had one room (small bedroom) that was colder then other rooms. We warned them about this problem but they put kids in this room. Window in this…
This story is long but my question is mostly not what to do to fix the problem but rather of how to handle tenants.
When they moved we had one room (small bedroom) that was colder then other rooms. We warned them about this problem but they put kids in this room. Window in this room is relatively new, contractor replaced it 5 years ago, but window is not the best or most expensive. Last winter they supplemented heat with electrical heater ( room is 7X14, not very big ) and we decided to replace radiator. We thought that radiator was the main problem. We replaced radiator this season. Plumber did all calculations and put radiator that is lightly bigger than suggested for this size of the room.
Initially everything was fine. But then they started to complain about heat again. We keep 72 during day and hiked to 75 when they complained. We also checked radiator. Radiator is as hot as other radiators in this apartment! But room is really cooler. They claim that it is 53 during night but of course I did not check the temperature.
We rise heat every day when they complain. It is really hot in our apartment and in apartment on the second floor.
Third floor ( problem apartment ) is slightly cooler but not cold. I have a problem going there with a thermometer. I am afraid it will look like I do not believe our tenants and want to start an argument war. My guest it is around 69-70 degrees. But small bedroom is colder. We are not going to argue on that, we are looking for a solution.
I do not want to fight with my tenants, I completely understand that she want her kids to be warm. I suggested to go and insulate window. They put plastic on window but did not do a good job. I made an appointment to do this but then I had to cancel: I had to take my daughter to the doctor instead of sending her to school and then school break started. I promised to do this next Monday when my child will be back to school. But I understand that problem may be much deeper and insulating window is not going to fix it. May be we will have to insulate roof.
Also, we replaced front side windows in each apartment this fall. New windows are Marvin and suppose to be very efficient. So, as you see we are working on this.
But since I canceled my “insulation appointment” last Tuesday I got calls every day to rise heat. We keep now heat at 74-76 with thermostat in our apartment. I spent several late hours at night during this week in second floor apartment staining new windows ( as tenants went on vacation) and it was very hot on a second floor.
Finally today I gave up and after I got call from my 3rd floor tenant again to raise heat ( it was 73 degrees on my thermostat) and I softly suggested that they can sometimes use space heater.
I told her that we are really looking at solution, that I will go and insulate her window next Monday and my plumber is going to come over that Monday ( I made an appointment already) but I really overheat the whole house because of this small room ( other room in her apartment are just fine). I told her that I hiked heat to 76 now but may be she should consider using space heater from time to time.
She is not the nicest person to deal with. Last year, when she complained about heat and that she has a cold we did what we could rising heat and I brought her herbal tea. Several days later I was cleaning stairs and I found this box of tea thrown in a hallway.
This time she was not very nice either. She told me that she is not going to use space heater again. She told me that she spent extra $200 each months last year on electricity ( I do not know, we used to have all electrical heat in out former place and it cost us about $400 to heat triplex completely, including hot water and cooking during winter monthly. She had to warm up just one small room in addition to regular if not adequate heat.)
She complained that her children are thick from cold. I was very tempted to mention that it is not fair to blame low heat in apartment if toddlers do not wear hats outside. I could only imagine where our conversation would go after that, so, I kept it to myself.
She told me that she is not going to discuss heat problem with me again and she is passing this issue to her husband. He called me after that and wanted to come over to discuss this in person. He will e back from work in an hour.
Now I want your suggestions on how to handle this. I really want to fix this problem. We spent money on radiator replacement, we spent small fortune on new windows. But is this normal to just refuse to use space heater in this room till we find what is wrong? As I mentioned we can do at least something about this next Monday.
What should be my position during this conversation. I am trying to be really nice to my tenants but I had been taken advantage not once because of this.
As the tenant in question I am disappointed to read this post and to hear that moscow_on_gowanus feels we are unkind. I truly wish she had brought this to our attention directly, because we certainly did not mean to hurt her feelings.
Our needs are really simple here. The main apartment is consistently below the legal limit of 68 degrees. As moscow points out, the back room is colder, our typical measurements indicate 58-62 degrees throughout the day. We use the camping thermometer we have, and no, we don’t doctor it in any way (we have absolutely no interest in anything other than bringing the apartment up to the legal minimum). If people here can suggest a better device for measuring the temperature, I’d appreciate the input, as all we’re trying to do is get the apartment heated correctly.
What we’ve noticed here is that when the landlords turn up the heat, our apartment warms considerably, up to 67-69 in the main apartment and as high as 65.5 in the back room. Honestly, these numbers would be fine if we could achieve them reliably. The problem is that we only get to these numbers after we call to complain. Every day.
We do have a space heater, which we have been using regularly since we first reported the heating problem 13 months ago. We do feel that 13 months should have been enough time to resolve this issue, so if we are to continue using a space heater would like financial recompense (the $200 figure is roughly correct — we did not use the space heater last month in order to calculate the difference in bills with and without the heater).
As for the rest: I’m not sure this is an appropriate forum, but I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the cold caused the girls’ illness (it was roseola — a virus). But it was difficult keeping them warm in the apartment (64 degrees apartment-wide at the time of the conversation) so we asked if they could keep the heat especially high for the next few days.
The tea “incident” was apparently a huge misunderstanding! My wife was extremely grateful for the tea, and returned it by leaving it outside the door to moscow’s apartment since she wasn’t home. Someone must have knocked it into the hall by accident. I’m really sorry that she felt we tossed it there! I agree, it would have been unconscionably rude if we had. This sounds like a discussion we should have in person and not relevant to the heating problem.
For all the suggestions here, thank you — it is very interesting to hear some of the possibilities. As tenants, we have a different perspective on some of this. We sympathize with the plight of buying a building that is poorly insulated and the difficulties of getting it up to code. To be blunt, however, this is not our problem. We just want it to be 68 degrees! Whether that’s by reinsulating, replacing rediator valves, turning the heat higher, etc., we don’t care. But we do know it can be done since when they turn the heat up it is warm enough up here.
We _don’t_ want to take drastic measures. But 13 months is a long time, and we need to find some way to apply pressure to make sure this gets taken care of before another winter has come and gone. If anyone has thoughts on how to resolve these conflicts peaceably, please let us know. We like our landlords and don’t want this to become a war.
If the tenant is so difficult, she might put ice on a thermometer that was left there. I’d go with my own thermometer when she complains. You are doing your best, and friendliness is important, but not all people appreciate it.
Has she invested in heavy drapes and carpet to help her children? My thermostat is at 68-69. Over 70 would be very uncomfortable for me, and cold is recommended for better sleep so it’s not the worst situation possible, but I wouldn’t want to live in 53 degree temperatures either. Colds come from germs, not temperature!
There are dangers with space heaters so I wouldn’t support that, especially with children, but there are wall plug ins and paying the electric bill sounds good. Or, try different radiator valves that bring the heat to that radiator first – ask your plumber. The best idea is probably to insulate the crawl space/roof.
Wow she’s sending her husband – sounds like an interesting event – maybe he’s more understanding as he has to live with her and has probably been at the back end of her not being satisfied more often than not.
Good luck to the both of you.
The problem is that the house is poorly insulated. Homeowners thought that when they were buying multimillion dollar homes they were actually worth that amount. They thought the seller actually took the time and effort to modernize the homes with the latest comforts. All new home buyers please be very careful what you buy there are some real museums out there for sale.
You can get a two part battery operated remote sensor with thermometer at Loews that you can screw to the wall in you tenants kids room. The kind you place in your backyard to tell what temperature it is outside. No wires. They have a memory feature that records the lowest temp for the day. You keep the read out in your place.
how about turning off a radiator on your floor or other floor where too hot?
I second Joey.
Get the roof insulated! Yes, it’s expensive, could be $2,500 depending on the size of your house, but it’s totally worth it. Joey from Federal Conservation did the work at my house:
http://www.federalconservation.com/
He’s an honest guy and, while not cheap, will not steer you wrong in terms of what you need. He could take a look at the room in question, too, and probably offer some ideas about why it’s so cold. What you save in energy bills (72! wow, my house is set to 70 in the eves / 68 during the day, and it’s really warm. None of my tenants ever complain about the heat) will more than make up for the insulation costs and the rest of the house won’t be uncomfortably warm.
I believe this is work they can do this time of year and, if I’m correct (though a quick call to Joey will tell you), he’ll do an inspection/estimate first.
Hope this helps. Good luck, stuff like this stresses me out too.
Just as an aside, my current apartment has 2 bedrooms that are much colder than the rest of the building. We are on the top floor; my landlord hasnt made efforts as great as yours, but I think I’ve figured out the problem.
There is a large north facing wall made entirely of stone/concrete. This wall is always cold to the touch.
You are relying on a thermostat that when set to 75 degrees will bring your apartment to 75 and hers, lets say 65. Lets say the lag time is set for the boiler to kick back on at around 70 in your apartment. In the mean time her apartment has dropped maybe twice as fast so she is already down to 60 and pissed. This scenario will continue through the night increasing the difference until at some point you throw your windows open to scream and let some heat out. You are simply wasting oil. You need to either put adjustable air vents (or smaller) on the lower radiators or possibly eliminate some of them all together. Might it be possible that you have a 2 pipe system only on some of the radiators?