Convince Neighbor to Fix Dangerous Abutment
A masonry (or concrete) abutment spans from the next property at left) and touches ours (at right). As you can see in the photo, it’s breaking away, due to that tree growing on their flat roof (yes, roof). We contacted them and they claim it’s not on their property. As you can see clear thru…
A masonry (or concrete) abutment spans from the next property at left) and touches ours (at right). As you can see in the photo, it’s breaking away, due to that tree growing on their flat roof (yes, roof).
We contacted them and they claim it’s not on their property. As you can see clear thru it past the side of our house (ie it’s beyond the plane of our house) this seems specious.
What can we do other than get a survey? Should there be a document we got at closing that shows property lines?
And if try to fix it, would there be liability issues and/or what’s the chance of getting them to reimburse, say, half?
I have a similar problem & it’s cost a bundle. I trim the ivy but have had to have the building pointed several times. A lawyer I know suggested I send a registered letter to the neighbor citing a little-known law that vegetation growing on his property but doing damage on mine makes him liable for any repairs I need. I can’t find the citation right now but I’ve acted on it & intend to pursue it since I’ve had years of being ignored.
An additional observation: it is hard to identify the rooftop tree from your photo, but from the shadows on your facade I’m going to suggest it’s an Ailanthus, a tenacious, non-native tree that can grow in virtually any crack or pile of debris, surviving where no other tree can (thus, not only making itself at home on a rooftop, but serving as theme and metaphor in the novel “A Tree Grows in Brooklyn”). For information on removal (which will not be easy), try the Brooklyn Botanic Garden’s walk-in Resource Center or call their Gardener’s Help Line at 718-623-7270.
One other thought, CMU:
You might want to place two or three crack monitors on the wall, particularly to measure any shifts in the distance between your exterior and the neighboring wall.
You can purchase the calibrated monitors here for example, they are relatively cheap:
http://www.benmeadows.com/store/Surveying_Engineering_Mapping/Survey_Equipment/Survey_Accessories/9640/?noredirect=True
Hi CMU
I agree with the points that Vinca makes above, but with a slightly different emphasis.
I would definitely clear the ivy, pronto, for a number of reasons, such as
-you can grow that much back fairly quickly anyway
-it will allow you to see the damage that much more clearly
-it will avoid the ivy becoming part of any back-and-forth on issues of blame, since it seems vegetation is involved in the argument. The more simplified the problem is in this case, the easier it will be to find a course of action to solve it.
At that point, the next step is documentation. Clear photographs will help, maybe take some from above, too, and you absolutely have to get your hands on a survey to tell you where the property line is. We already know that it’s basically the side of your building, but without that piece of paper it’s just an opinion, not a fact. You should have received a survey at your closing, there may well be one in your property folder at the DoB also.
If you need a signed and sealed statement evaluating the damage, as a professional opinion, I’d be happy to do that for you for what it’s worth. Building a paper trail might be important if your neighbor is uncooperative.
Finally, after you’ve built up this information I’d recommend sending it to the neighbor in a more formal manner, in other words send the survey that demonstrates the problem is on their property, etc, by certified mail and let them know you’re copying the same information to your attorney. See what kind of response that gets and go from there.
Hopefully, if the neighbor is reasonable and realizes that you are both in the right and serious about it, they’ll take care of their building.
Good luck!
Thanks for the advice, most helpful.
The left building shown is one-story at the back of the actual 4-st uilding which is at the corner and fronts 5th Av. (it’s the kitchen of Mourarde now).
I’m pretty sure the “thing” I’m talking about is not structural; it appears to be a curved facade connecting the street edge of the left building to ours, which is abt 3′ inset, maybe because it matches other curves on our house.
The tree is really growing on the roof of the left building or within the arc of the “thing” (hard to tell). Stupid of me not to have done something earlier, but I was fascinated by a tree up high like that.
1. As an architect, I’m going to be careful about giving advice without fully seeing the situation,and can’t really see the photo well, but my best guess it that there may have been a sister building on the left side that was demo’d and the abutment was put in or left to shore up your building. It’s probably half yours and half theirs. It’s in both of your interests to collaborate, but in lieu of that, fix it and get them to release you of liability for work on their property. I don’t understand quite where the tree is. If that trunk of that tree starts 3′ off the sidewalk, as you well know, it has no business being there nor does it have any business being on the roof of their building, but it’s less of a concern to you then.
2. both of you should have surveys showing where your properties lie.
3. You might be able to find the surveys, but would have to get a surveyor to stake it out again unless somewhere underneath all that vegetation the marks are still visible.
4. it depends on the type of vegetation you have, some put their roots into the mortar and will be bad for the masonry, others will not directly harm it, but always will shade the masonry and a) not allow it to fully dry out, which could be bad and b) not allow you to see conditions which need repair. I’d probably try to prune it down in any case –
5. local 11 is not going to apply to this case.
6. you could report it to the DOB, but it’s really not going to solve anything, they are not going to do your survey for you and resolve who pays for it.
7. you have the correct attitude towards the problem in that you understand that it’s more a question of liability and fixing it rather than just the money to repair the problem. Your neighbors might not be as rational but, you care about your house and want to make it last.
Re: ivy, since it’s not a myth, there’s no reason to debunk it. Here’s a link to a simple, not overly botanical PDF on the subject: http://www.northwilts.gov.uk/vegetation_-_web-friendly.pdf
I thought the ivy ruins facades had been debunked?
There are architects, code compliance professionals, etc., who read this forum and, hopefully, they will weigh in. Until that time, I think there are several courses that I would follow if faced with a similar situation:
–1) Call and ask your questions to one or more of the following professionals you have already worked with: architect, engineer, person who performed the inspection for your purchase (both in terms of clarifying whether the condition exists on your property, on your neighbor’s, or both; and in terms of what local laws might govern and how to proceed in addressing the presumed hazardous condition);
–2) Return to my neighbor following conversations with those professionals and express ongoing concern about your own safety, the neighbor’s safety, and the public’s safety;
–3) If the neighbor remains unresponsive, inform them that most likely reduces your options to calling DOB and reporting a hazardous condition. Keep in mind that it may turn out that you, and not your neighbor, is responsible for the hazardous condition.
The City maintains an Unsafe Buildings hotline. I imagine they might be able to answer your questions, but I’ve never spoken with them and can’t say that from experience: Unsafe Buildings Unit, 280 Broadway, 7th floor, UB Hotline: (212) 566-3382. You might also want to Google: 1. NYC Administrative Code Sections 27-129 (b) Notification requirements; and 27-1021 Protection of sidewalks; 2. 1 RCNY § 32-03 (b) (2) (vii) Inspection procedures and (b) (5) (i) Unsafe conditions; 3. OPPN 1/ 05 Procedure for Local Law 11/98 Unsafe Notification. Though this does not appear to apply based on your photograph, you might also want to Google the City’s “No Penalty Retaining Wall Inspection Safety Program.” To add even more information to the mix, the link below is from a firm in Illinois, but covers NYC facade conditions: http://www.wje.com/facadeordinance/newyorkcode.html. Finally, ivy is extremely destructive to brick and mortar, and you would be wise to eradicate it from your own building’s facade.