16.5 x 40' brownstone layout?
We’re considering buying a brownstone in prime brownstone Brooklyn but it’s only 16.5 x 40 (3 stories, 2 family) and we’re trying to figure out if it’s worth it in terms of being a real improvement in space from our current living situation. Can these be laid out to feel spacious? Current house owner lives…
We’re considering buying a brownstone in prime brownstone Brooklyn but it’s only 16.5 x 40 (3 stories, 2 family) and we’re trying to figure out if it’s worth it in terms of being a real improvement in space from our current living situation. Can these be laid out to feel spacious? Current house owner lives in lower duplex (kitchen on garden, bedrooms on parlor) with top floor rental, but we’d have to reconfigure since the house is really badly done, and we much prefer parlor level kitchen and bedrooms on top floor. But, we’re worried that the expense of the house including renovation may not be worth it for the final space we get.
We now own a 3BR/2BA prewar apt (w/outdoor space/storage/W/D and lots of sun) that is about 1200 sf and really efficiently laid out, with decent sized bedrooms. Our main complaint is that the common space feels smaller than we’d like, and ideally, we’d like another room. Problem is, the brownstone is not a clear improvement. For one thing, the bedrooms on top floor will likely be smaller (can’t really get 3 bedrooms, right? only 2.5, with the half bedroom a small study) and not clear if there will be as much storage space. The parlor level would probably only feel more spacious if we knocked down all the walls, but would this look weird?
We probably can’t afford to do anything with garden floor for now so will either rent it or use it kind of as is (perhaps just rip out kitchen and paint, put down inexpensive floors), but in the future, we’d want a bedroom down there.
Any tips on how to lay out this size brownstone, and whether it can really feel spacious?
Thanks!
We have a 20-foot wide house (I posted before) and after reading more of these posts I had more thoughts. I find even the wider houses can feel chopped up and narrow without the open floorplan. Our house does have the formal dining room separate from an enclosed galley kitchen, both of which are my personal preference. But the living room had various double-parlor walls ripped out before we bought it and that part is very open and spacious feeling. So for a more narrow house, I’d say take out every wall possible on the parlor floor and make it look like an open loft kitchen/eating/living space. It will not feel small or cramped, don’t worry about that.
For the 2nd floor I don’t think people should worry about kids’ bedrooms being small. It’s more important in remembering my own childhood to have the “room of one’s own” even if it’s small.
I look at home shows on tv and when I see those cavernous suburban subdivision houses with the massive rooms and cathedral ceilings it’s like, omg, that is not intimate and comfortable in any way possible. Plus imagine what it costs to heat and cool them. Insanity. They’ll all be torn down or reconfigured within a few years, those monstrosities, as fuel costs rise mark my words. I love the Brooklyn little-house lifestyle whether 20-foot or 17-foot wide.
I am really curious about the information you gleaned from this post. We purchased a 17 x 40 3 floor two family in the south slope in December and are now trying to find architects and look for designs to allow us to turn the top two floors into an open plan parlor and 3 bedrooms (the garden floor is already a well set up rental – the previous owner lived in it). The top two floors are currently two reasonably chopped up apartments. Did any of the architects get in touch with you ? Have you seen a lot of open plan parlor floors which “work”, and do you know who did the design ? Thanks. I left my e-mail address in my profile.
hi,
i’m a not quite licensed young architect, though i’ve been designing apartments (renovation and new) for about 3 years.
i think a 16.5 x 40 house, while relatively a wash spacewise because of the stair, can feel like a much more diverse space, and if it were me, I would prefer it.
is it possible in the future to put a setback roof top addition for a master bedroom as your equity and your family grows (as far as zoning floor area rights, i mean).
if you’re interested in seeing possible layouts, i’d be willing to do some basic layouts on spec, and asking for payment only if you used the ideas and bought the house.
if you were interested in setting something up, we’ll figure a way to get in contact, and go from there.
also, if you have already decided to take the house, and need an architect for DOB filing, I can recommend a few professionals.
guest designer.
housesearcher, I would go for it.
But I would set it up as luvtocook has with the kitchen/family room set up on the garden level. Would have access to that outdoor space. I think there is another thread in the forums about opening up the back wall with large windows.
Good luck! I am envious!
I’ve lived in the upstairs triplex of a 17.5′ wide brownstone for about 20 years. The garden floorthrough provides rental income. Side staircase. All original detail (fireplaces, woodwork, etc.), which I kept; didn’t tear out any walls, doors, etc. Room size has never been a problem as I made a conscious decision upon purchase to be very careful with furniture acquisition and not buy any without groundplan and tape measure in hand (would have done the same with a larger space anyway). Result: just the right furniture at just the right size, lots of open space, and control of consumption. And a large-feeling, livable space. Would I like a 20’er? Sure, but the house has still been a pleasure to live in, as well as the best investment of my life. Even without modifications, the narrower houses can be cheerful, livable, and spacious in feel – just takes a little planning.
You should consider whether this house will be too small if you CAN’T take over the ground floor in few years (lots of people are in this position.) Your mortgage won’t get smaller; your expenses, especially with renovation, will just go up and up, and you may continue to need that rental income – which will also go up. People think their earnings may go up, but they don’t always go as fast and as far as you think. And then there are those unplanned things that happen in life that cost bucks.
Prices won’t go down, that’s for sure. And I think if you thought the 2 floors were big enough, you would be getting into contract, not asking here. Even in a larger brownstone, after living in a pre-war apartment (if it isn’t a brownstone), your typical brownstone rooms will usually feel smaller than your typical pre-war apartment building rooms – I know, I’ve lived in both – that’s an adjustment in feeling of spaciousness that you will have to make even if you have four floors.
Size of living space is a very personal thing – what feels spacious to one can feel cramped to another.
Just want to thank people for their input – of course, I know no one can tell me what I want. But it’s very helpful to hear the pros and cons of living in this kind of space, since right now, our space is quite different and I’m just trying to envision how it feels to live in this kind of narrow brownstone space. The truth is, I doubt we can afford an 18 or 20 footer, unless we totally change location, and I’m not sure we are willing to do that – so I know we can’t have it all and we have to make compromises. The only thing that would change that would be a significant shift in the market, which is a big gamble I know. Anyway, I appreciate all the perspectives on this topic!
OK, problem is, it’s hard for anyone here to tell you what YOU want. But here’s what we have:
Three-story, 2-fam brick townhouse, 16.67 x 46. We rent out the garden floor — may take it over in a few years when kids are bigger. On the parlor floor, we knocked out the walls and did it open plan: this is key if you want to maximize space there. (There were no details to save and our tastes run to modernist to begin with.) Kitchen in back leads to a deck. I love the parlor, because the open space is configurable in different ways. There’s a half bath on the parlor floor.
Top floor has a large master bedroom in front, full bath and a study in the middle, two bedrooms in back–which, to be honest, are small and very small. If I had it to do over again, I’d probably have kept them as one big room and had the kids share. But they’re fine kids’ rooms, and we’ve thought that we may reconfigure / move kids around down the road if we take over the whole house. Ultimately, our feeling is, use as much of the house as possible as common space: bedrooms are for sleeping and don’t need to be big. But that’s us.
Am I glad we bought the house? Oh my God. Best decision we ever made. Now, we moved from a smaller apartment — 2BR, 1 1/2 Bath, maybe 900sf. But I would never want to be in even a well-laid out 3BR apartment. You can’t compare to the flexibility, the option of either having income or extra space–and I just like living on multiple floors. We did a top-to-bottom, fairly major reno (nearly a gut really) for under $200K… but that was in 2003, with an unlicensed contractor. We probably got lucky, in that he actually did a great job. (As did our architect, who unfortunately no longer does single houses.)
That’s us. As for you… I dunno, maybe you’d be happier in an 18 or 20 footer (I wouldn’t kick the extra space out of bed), but whether you can afford that or are willing to make whatever tradeoffs you’d need to to get it… your call, dude. Good luck.
It sounds like you really want the house. It’s hard to find a house you like and can afford and fits all your requirements. The house supply is diminishing, not increasing, as someone said.
We have a 20-foot wide house but I think the narrow houses are SO cute. There’s a narrow-house prejudice around here that’s unfair. Sure, it’s better to have all 3 floors as a one-family when a house is narrow. But you can take over the whole house when the time comes and it makes sense financially.