16.5 x 40' brownstone layout?
We’re considering buying a brownstone in prime brownstone Brooklyn but it’s only 16.5 x 40 (3 stories, 2 family) and we’re trying to figure out if it’s worth it in terms of being a real improvement in space from our current living situation. Can these be laid out to feel spacious? Current house owner lives…
We’re considering buying a brownstone in prime brownstone Brooklyn but it’s only 16.5 x 40 (3 stories, 2 family) and we’re trying to figure out if it’s worth it in terms of being a real improvement in space from our current living situation. Can these be laid out to feel spacious? Current house owner lives in lower duplex (kitchen on garden, bedrooms on parlor) with top floor rental, but we’d have to reconfigure since the house is really badly done, and we much prefer parlor level kitchen and bedrooms on top floor. But, we’re worried that the expense of the house including renovation may not be worth it for the final space we get.
We now own a 3BR/2BA prewar apt (w/outdoor space/storage/W/D and lots of sun) that is about 1200 sf and really efficiently laid out, with decent sized bedrooms. Our main complaint is that the common space feels smaller than we’d like, and ideally, we’d like another room. Problem is, the brownstone is not a clear improvement. For one thing, the bedrooms on top floor will likely be smaller (can’t really get 3 bedrooms, right? only 2.5, with the half bedroom a small study) and not clear if there will be as much storage space. The parlor level would probably only feel more spacious if we knocked down all the walls, but would this look weird?
We probably can’t afford to do anything with garden floor for now so will either rent it or use it kind of as is (perhaps just rip out kitchen and paint, put down inexpensive floors), but in the future, we’d want a bedroom down there.
Any tips on how to lay out this size brownstone, and whether it can really feel spacious?
Thanks!
We just finished renovating the garden duplex in our 17×40 4 story brownstone (still renting the top two floors). We knocked down all the walls in the garden level and placed the kitchen in the middle, with the family room leading out to the garden, knocked down the back wall, raised the ceiling in the family room area (architect’s idea) and installed sliding glass doors with transoms. The garden level, which is usually the darkest, dimmest level, is very sunny and open. We also have a powder room and two closets on the garden level.
On the parlor level, we have two bedrooms and two full baths, plus a room where we watch TV and hang out at the end of the night. All rooms are divided by pocket doors.
The parlor level is also configured in such a way, that if we want to take over the third floor, it would not involved moving pipes and electrical.
Our next project is to finish the cellar, which we have already dug down, so the height is higher than most. A skylight was installed (basically, the hatch is glass) on the southern end to allow some light into the cellar. Currently, our laundry is down there, but we will eventually turn the cellar in to a gym and have storage.
We love our space. A friend of mine who owns a house that is 20 feet wide said that our house feels more spacious.
A good architect should be able to help you make your space feel more spacious and be more efficient.
I will say, however, that the total costs was more than your budget of $200-$250K.
Good luck!
We just finished renovating the garden duplex in our 17×40 4 story brownstone (still renting the top two floors). We knocked down all the walls in the garden level and placed the kitchen in the middle, with the family room leading out to the garden, knocked down the back wall, raised the ceiling in the family room area (architect’s idea) and installed sliding glass doors with transoms. The garden level, which is usually the darkest, dimmest level, is very sunny and open. We also have a powder room and two closets on the garden level.
On the parlor level, we have two bedrooms and two full baths, plus a room where we watch TV and hang out at the end of the night. All rooms are divided by pocket doors.
The parlor level is also configured in such a way, that if we want to take over the third floor, it would not involved moving pipes and electrical.
Our next project is to finish the cellar, which we have already dug down, so the height is higher than most. A skylight was installed (basically, the hatch is glass) on the southern end to allow some light into the cellar. Currently, our laundry is down there, but we will eventually turn the cellar in to a gym and have storage.
We love our space. A friend of mine who owns a house that is 20 feet wide said that our house feels more spacious.
A good architect should be able to help you make your space feel more spacious and be more efficient.
I will say, however, that the total costs was more than your budget of $200-$250K.
Good luck!
Agree that you will likely find upper duplex to be a tight fit, coming from what sounds like a very comfortable apartment. Our 3 story 17.5 X 40 brownstone was configured as an upper duplex/ground floor rental when we bought it. The parlor floor is an open plan with walls removed and kitchen in the rear which makes it feel more spacious. Upstairs had two bedrooms with interior study/office that we used as a third bedroom.
We eventually took over the ground floor and added a bedroom/family room/new bath. These are not large houses, but we love our place.
This house isn’t an appreciable enough size increase for you to move from your current space. Hang on until something matching more of your criteria comes on the market. It totally sounds like you’ll be unhappy and want to move again soon if you settle for this house. At the 16 x 40, it also sounds like it will be extremely messy and expensive to even approach a semblance of what you’re looking for.
If you already have 1200 squ ft 3 bedroom, I think you are right that the duplex of a narrow brownstone is not going to give you any more space, and likely less, with the stairway, etc. Usually people moving from as much space as your apt. to a 3-story use the entire house.
The key to living in those narrow houses is to have a center stair. That way, for example, your top floor would have spaces the width of the house at either end, with the stairway only taking up the middle.
This is probably not what you want to hear, but my advice would be to try to live in the current duplex, with some clean up, for a while, and wait to renovate the entire house. Think about whether you definitely want to do a parlor level kitchen — that’s great for a 4-story triplex, but if you need bedroom space, are you eventually going to have a bedroom on the ground floor 2 floors below the other bedrooms? The best configurations for a 3-story I’ve seen have the kitchen on the ground level (with french doors leading to garden — very nice) and dining/family room, 2nd level has half a beautiful living area and half master bedroom, and 3rd floor has 2 additional nice size bedrooms.
I’d run some numbers and see if the rent you get for a number of years on the ground floor pays for the additional costs of renovating into a top floor duplex and ground floor rental, especially if you plan to eventually take over the entire house. And, I assume you will want to take over the house relatively soon — since you have more space in your current apartment than you would in your new top floor brownstone duplex.
Good luck.
7:23 here. I am an architect and I have dealt with people like yourselves many times, and I can read all the warnings signs here. This house isn’t going to work for you. 16.5 x 40 is a dollhouse. Things can be done to “open it up” a bit, but I can tell that you are already too much at odds with this house for it to be made to work for you.
Of course, we are planning on hiring an architect but the problem I’m having is that we have to sign house contract before hiring the architect and so I’m trying to get a general sense, from people who own such houses, if this small a house can feel spacious. Right now, the current owner has her parlor floor chopped up, warren-like, into small rooms so it looks really bad. Top floor is better but still has wasted space (2 hallways – one exterior to apt and one inside, since it’s a rental and has to be made private).
So – anyone out there who has loved their 16.5 x 40 house and can confidently say it can feel bigger than it’s dimensions would suggest? Please note our budget is evidently tight – we were planning on 200-250K for the renovation (seems like a lot to us) but from the preliminary discussions I’ve had with architects/contractors so far, they indicate that’s actually small since one can easily spend 200-250 per floor – though we are fine with making compromises i.e. Ikea kitchen, to stay on more modest budget.
The answer is Yes. But it depends on your needs and 7:23 is right; hire an architect to do some generic diagrams for you on an hourly basis.
Please save yourselves a lot of time, and hire an architect.