16.5 x 40' brownstone layout?
We’re considering buying a brownstone in prime brownstone Brooklyn but it’s only 16.5 x 40 (3 stories, 2 family) and we’re trying to figure out if it’s worth it in terms of being a real improvement in space from our current living situation. Can these be laid out to feel spacious? Current house owner lives…
We’re considering buying a brownstone in prime brownstone Brooklyn but it’s only 16.5 x 40 (3 stories, 2 family) and we’re trying to figure out if it’s worth it in terms of being a real improvement in space from our current living situation. Can these be laid out to feel spacious? Current house owner lives in lower duplex (kitchen on garden, bedrooms on parlor) with top floor rental, but we’d have to reconfigure since the house is really badly done, and we much prefer parlor level kitchen and bedrooms on top floor. But, we’re worried that the expense of the house including renovation may not be worth it for the final space we get.
We now own a 3BR/2BA prewar apt (w/outdoor space/storage/W/D and lots of sun) that is about 1200 sf and really efficiently laid out, with decent sized bedrooms. Our main complaint is that the common space feels smaller than we’d like, and ideally, we’d like another room. Problem is, the brownstone is not a clear improvement. For one thing, the bedrooms on top floor will likely be smaller (can’t really get 3 bedrooms, right? only 2.5, with the half bedroom a small study) and not clear if there will be as much storage space. The parlor level would probably only feel more spacious if we knocked down all the walls, but would this look weird?
We probably can’t afford to do anything with garden floor for now so will either rent it or use it kind of as is (perhaps just rip out kitchen and paint, put down inexpensive floors), but in the future, we’d want a bedroom down there.
Any tips on how to lay out this size brownstone, and whether it can really feel spacious?
Thanks!
We bought a 16.5-wide frame house 2 years ago. It was fully renovated when we bought and very nicely done! We live in the upper duplex (or you might say triplex because this house has the added advantage of an “attic” bedroom with its own 1/2 bath). We rent out the garden floor. I have to say that if we didn’t have the attic BR this would not be enough space (we have 2 kids). If we could live on all 3 floors (even w/out attic), I’d be happy, but we have to rent garden floor to pay the mortgage! I’m pretty happy in a smallish space–our parlor floor has great light–separate rooms but still open enough that you can see from the back kitchen thru to front LR. We have skylights in all 3 bedrooms and a hallway, which adds light and feeling of space. My issue now is the neighborhood–if you love your neighborhood, that is a huge plus! I’m curious what price range you’re looking at for a house this size that needs reno.
Housesearcher – no one has a crystal ball, but from what I’ve seen since we bought a townhouse in mid 2005 in Cobble Hill; we looked in PS, CH, FG, BH, CG etc., is that there is not going to be any significant supply increase and in fact the opposite (as too many 25′ wide ones are still too often cut up into Condo’s). So if you find the right house then you should buy it now and not wait to discover that the price of these will continue to rise (perhaps at a slower pace) over the next few years.
That being said I don’t know that I would buy a 16′ – we settled on a 22′ and finished the basement. We live on the parlor & garden and have a completely finished 8′ ceiling height basement/come rec room/come children’s play room. All up (including the below grade basement) we live in 3,000 and still have two 800 sq ft apartments to rent out.
Hey 5:06 pm – Well, that gives me hope. Would you be willing to share your architect’s name? I also wish there was a way for people to connect on this list without publicly having to give out personal contact info – if you know of a way to do so, I’d be interested to speak to you more. Thanks!
I own a 16 x 45 brownstone (three floors) and I have to say that I LOVE it. When I bought the place it was a real mess…rental on the top floor and duplex below. I hired an architect, converted the ground floor to a rental, did a modern, clean renovation and reside with my small family in the upper three bedroom duplex.
I ripped out the walls on the parlor floor to create an open plan kitchen/dining/formal living area (kitchen in the back with a deck over the garden). When you walk into the house there is a stair case directly in front of you and then a very large open arch into the living/dining area. I built a large skylight over the stairs to add more light. Upstairs, the master bedroom is pretty big and I added a large private bathroom and a wall of closets. The other two bedrooms are small…but honestly they serve the purpose of a child’s room and a TV room. There is also a second bath in the hallway. In a couple of years when we need more space we plan on taking over the ground floor and turning it into master suite. Also…I would turn the basement into a rec room. This is the nicest thing about owning a house…you can grow within the property. I would choose a skinny house over an apartment any day. My one complaint about the space is that there is no bathroom on the parlor floor (one on the ground and two upstairs). We could have added a ½ bath, but I felt it cut into the overall feel of the parlor floor space.
I have been in a lot of 20-foot brownstones and I have to say my place does not feel tiny in comparison. Other brownstones have more privacy and room separation, but I wanted a more open plan space, so the configuration works well for me. Does it feel small? Not to me! I lived in a 500 square foot apartment for years so this feels like a palace! Sure…if I had the money I would buy a bigger house, but to be honest I would want another floor…not necessarily a wider footprint. FYI…total renovation cost was 225,000. I still have some work to do in the house (I would love new windows)…but I think the place looks great.
OK, here’s another question which granted, may require a crystal ball, or at least some economists among us: if you were in our situation (we have substantial cash from another real estate sale, sitting in a high-interest savings acct), would you grab this house now, since so few ever seem to come on the market? Or would you wait to watch the market? Our dilemma is that we may never find a better location – in large part since the house is right next to our very close friends, in school we want, in neighborhood we want, etc. But, it is undeniably small, needs a lot of work, and we wonder if we would regret buying it if the market turns and we find that (even if our apt goes down in value) we can buy a lot more house for our money. If values dipped back down to 2004-5 levels, for example, we might even be able to buy a house and keep our apt, by renting it out and leveraging the extra rent (which would be significantly higher than our carrying costs) to defray the extra mortgage on the house. Any house will involve compromises and I know ultimately it’s our gut feeling that counts, but just curious about the temperature of the market, vs. the fact that inventory seems perpetually low in these prime areas…
stick with your apartment (it sounds great anyway) or wait till a wider place comes up.
don’t listen to what anyone says — width is the single most important factor in buying a brownstone.
What about the argument that a house is just more valuable than an apartment, since you can grow into it. One big perk of this house is that the location simply is our ideal (very close to our best friends, in the truly best part of Bklyn that we love), the garden is very big, house gets great light, and once we live on 3 floors, we will have more space than we have now. Is it worth the sacrifice of the first few years to have something more spacious later? I kind of like the “nautical” feeling of small spaces – that is, making small spaces work efficiently – but I also don’t want to do it if the 16.5 x 40 is just too darn teeny. I’m hearing different things on this list, some folks say it will feel tiny, others say you can make it feel spacious. Maybe I just need to hear from more people who’ve totally opened up the parlor floor to make it feel bigger – how well does that work?
lay it out on it’s side. You’ll get more space that way.
What I get from the above is my first gut feeling, that this house is not big enough for you. (I long ago realized that my current and former 3-bdrm apartments were much more spacious than many houses.)
The last poster makes me realize that with enough money (and somewhere else to live while renovation is being done) you can transform anything – but it doesn’t sound like you are looking for a place that needs that much reno to be livable.
Find a four-story brownstone.