Yards Scale-Back: Token or Meaningful Move?
Big news on Atlantic Yards on Friday. First, Ratner announced that he was axing 440 market-rate condominiums for a total of 475,000 square feet. According to James P. Stuckey, the new plan “allows for more open space, narrows the scale of the buildings and reduces overall bulk and density, but it also gives us the…
Big news on Atlantic Yards on Friday. First, Ratner announced that he was axing 440 market-rate condominiums for a total of 475,000 square feet. According to James P. Stuckey, the new plan “allows for more open space, narrows the scale of the buildings and reduces overall bulk and density, but it also gives us the flexibility to maintain our commitment to affordable housing.” While the overall number of floors would shrink, some buildings would be even taller than originally planned. (Hmmmm.) Separately, the Empire State Development Corporation said it would expand the main geographic area under study and increase the number of intersections where the traffic impact will be examined. Marty says he’s “delighted” by the changes but not so Dan Goldstein: “The whole thing is still bigger than it was when it was announced.”
Arena Complex Shrink by 5% [NY Times]
Final Scope Document [DDDB]
Anon 2:03 was me.
“I never said that anti-AY folks dont want anything built on the site – what I said is that AY folks are in favor of development that should never and will never happen (i.e low rise development) and it is the equivelant of being against all development.” HUH? Where did you get that from?
To me, low rise development means buildings under 10 stories. (I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong) I think all but the most stubborn will concede that that’s unrealistic. I have no problem with high rise development, but within reason. There is no reason why a happy medium can’t be achieved that gives us the housing and businesses we need, along with the density Ratner needs to make it financially viable. I agree, towers are inevitable, and I also agree with David that the site is a prime hub of transportation that should be used to it’s best capacity. My problem, and I speak solely for myself here, is that too little consideration seems to have been given to the environment, the infrastructure of the area, and to aesthetic considerations towards the surrounding neighborhood. Brooklyn has it’s own unique identity, and it can include an expanded and higer rise downtown, that is inevitable, whether we like it or not. However, this should be an opportunity for the look of the future to be directed, in part, by the people’s participation. We live here, not Bruce Ratner, or even Michael Bloomberg. Shouldn’t we, especially those who are directly affected by AY, have a say in Brooklyn’s future?
“There is a great deal of facts and figures the opponents have and talk about.”
May be so, but those facts have done absolutely nothing to stop Ratner. To repeat, I’m talking about effectiveness of strategy, not validity of argument.
“But PR hasn’t won this battle yet. And if it does, then the hollow men will have won.”
Hollow men, now there’s a judgemental term. And, once again, it carries the assumption that those working to bring AY to fruition are somehow lesser than those who oppose it.
Yuppie is not a judgmental term in my book. ANd you should also notice that it is the proponents who throw around the word as an insult to opponents and to denigrate their position.
I sorry that you think idealism and morals are weak grounds to stand on- if you bothered to really read the arguments out there (try google) you’ll find you are totally wrong. There is a great deal of facts and figures the opponents have and talk about. Ignoring them doesn’t make you right.It makes you poorly informed.
I’m not one to applaud winning a battle on its PR merits. I use substance for my decisions. But PR hasn’t won this battle yet. And if it does, then the hollow men will have won.
“And just because you can pay off people to get what you want, doesn’t mean it should be allowed. Insulting opponents just because you don’t like what they say is ridiculous and only points out that you have no good solid arguments to make because you’re arguing from a pr standpoint.”
PR wins many battles, just as it’s winning this one 🙂
“Should” – interesting word choice, and one that underscores the idealism of AY opponents. It might make people feel unified, but it won’t further their cause of blocking or radically altering the project. That’s been my central point: idealism and morals are failing the AY opponents. When the most visible person risking displacement is a man living off his investments in a luxury condominium, it’s not the type of story that brings tears to the public’s eye. Again, poor strategy.
And no comment on the summation of Ratner’s accomplishments. Not surprising…
I apologize if you found the term yuppie offensive. I am a proud yuppie and consider it a compliment.
http://www.theslatinreport.com/top_story.jsp?StoryName=0708yards3.txt&Topic=Place&fromPage=Place
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:-BlrbvtbOHsJ:www.communityconsulting.org/DTBklyn/TransportationScope.pdf+Ratner+Atlantic+Yards&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=60
http://www.cbrooklynneighborhoods.homestead.com/Links.html
http://www.dddb.net/times/
http://atlanticyardsreport.blogspot.com/
http://www.fansforfairplay.com/factsheet.html
http://www.onnyturf.com/articles/read.php?article_id=205
http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/403193p-341502c.html
http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/landuse/20051115/12/1654
http://therealestate.observer.com/atlantic_yards/
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2005/10/18/atlantic_yards_pro_forma_throwdown_tonight.php
Oops, I forgot to mention public schools (where will we place the new influx of students). Unless, we’re assuming that most of the luxury condos will be bought by singles.
David you make a great point about maximizing density around the transportation hub. Sounds logical.
I think that a lot of us (undecided) are just concerned that this increased density is going to put a large strain on the current infrastructure (traffic, fire, police, trash, sewer, parking). I’m all for the AY project as long as the environmental impacts are carefully/honestly addressed.
I too would like to see the environmental plans that are proposed to address these issues.
I never said that anti-AY folks dont want anything built on the site – what I said is that AY folks are in favor of development that should never and will never happen (i.e low rise development) and it is the equivelant of being against all development.
The location in question is next door to one of the largest mass transit hubs in the country and therefore development that is in scale with the nearby neighborhoods is NOT approriate from an enviromental or economic point of view (nor is it economically viable). You arent going to get mostly vacant land next to a transportation hub in this city ever again, and therefore AY is a unique opportunity – you can build low rise development, thereby pushing growth further out and insuring more traffic, more pollution, more expense, more sprawl, or you can take advantage of the historically intelligent design of our city and develop with density toward the center (around mass transit) and maximize quality of life for ALL.