The SEPTA Train is Leaving its 4th Avenue Station
[nggallery id=”22444″ template=galleryview] Late last week, construction equipment and a new fence arrived at the mostly vacant lot near the entrance to the Union Street subway station on 4th Avenue. The visible signs of pending redevelopment are backed up by the fact that the DOB just gave the go-ahead for a 12-story, 40-unit building on…
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Late last week, construction equipment and a new fence arrived at the mostly vacant lot near the entrance to the Union Street subway station on 4th Avenue. The visible signs of pending redevelopment are backed up by the fact that the DOB just gave the go-ahead for a 12-story, 40-unit building on the property. The L-shaped lot has been distinctive because of the rusted SEPTA car that’s been parked on it for quite some time. Above, a photo farewell to 4th Avenue’s SEPTA, whose days appear to be numbered. We’d love to know how it is that the train car came to be parked on 4th Avenue and Union; if anyone’s got the scoop, please fill us in! GMAP DOB
@ Jack
You say “Instead of actually doing something positive to a vacant lot and—by that example—showing a true spirit of working with the community, you guys spend endless hours berating ANYONE who says ANYTHING about the Lyceum with the fervor of an over-defensive failing business owner.”
How much more does it need to be made clear that the lot being discussed for “showing a true spirit” does NOT belong to Lyceum.
Regarding your stint at the Onion. It is referred to here only because of ALL PEOPLE.. You should be one to realize how often people take what’s on paper or the net to be TOTALLY TRUE.. and will not look into who is putting the info out there.
That’s all. How many people have not looked at the Onion and said.. wow no way? I have to sacrifice my first born or God wont take me? All that is being stated here is that a lot of things you said were not really all on the nose as to the PRESENT state. Last time I checked many things in life are work in progress. You obviously have not been to the lyceum recently nor have the comments you have heard been to recent shows.
Why can’t you just cut it some slack as to where it is right now. It is just a pain to see someone who seems to at least know a thing or two about what the internet is capable of making such comments.
If you feel stalked regarding the putting it out there that you were a web designer and worked for The Onion.. well it is all out there.. for all to see.
you seem so fixed on being critical as to what you have seen on the past or heard… but yet it seems you have not attended any recent shows at that building.
That is the point that I think the owner is trying to say. There have been many shows there and it appears that maybe.. just maybe.. you are judging things for something it isn’t anymore. Why must the owner of that building say.. YES, A SHOW WENT WRONG.. when .. it has moved on and done what it could to make sure organizers and audience can have a good time? and btw… I don’t work for Eric.. just know him well enough to know that he is doing what he can to make sure he gets shows here that are fun for all. Go to his website and see images of recent shows and how great the space looks when professionals are putting something up. He is trying to make a space that allows organizers to create a space for their shows that they can’t create in other venues.
You Lyceum folks need to get your story’s straight. First, Eric says there were never any issues. Then “Gio” says there WERE issues, but now they have worked it out.
Look, let me lay it out straight. I’ve ben to hundreds of venues—large and small—in NYC and with the advent of blogs and review sites one thing has made filtering the wheat from the chaff a lot easier. How much time the “owners” spend during a day to defend their business defaming the posters versus owners who simply acknowledge the issue and admit that maybe the “customer” has a point.
The sheer endless volume of screeds posted by Eric and others who works with him speaks volumes. Instead of actually doing something positive to a vacant lot and—by that example—showing a true spirit of working with the community, you guys spend endless hours berating ANYONE who says ANYTHING about the Lyceum with the fervor of an over-defensive failing business owner.
Also, personally, anyone who considers my stint as a comedy writer for “The Onion” as being a “journalist” is just a bit shy of being nutty. Do I have to explain how ridiculous that is? And how stalkerishly menacing that is?
Please folks, take the energy you spend arguing into fixing up the Lyceum. And maybe invest in a basic customer service course.
Eric,
In all seriousness, with each knee-jerk post you dig your own hole. For example:
“as a journalist you wouldn’t get away with unresearched/unsubstantiated snark.”
Indeed, you are 100% correct. But I am not a journalist and have never been on ever. Might as well say that I’m a doctor, because I’m not that either!
“as to being anonymous, its all out there for someone to see.”
Not really. Until this post you didn’t identify yourself. And having a login for a site to post as a valid user would enhance your credibility. And is not as difficult as you make it sound.
You’re seriously building straw men and avoiding issues. And in this behavior proving by example what lots of people have said about your behavior and style.
Take care,
Jack
Jack. Since it seems you are a person who likes to quote and break down postings whether here or in Brooklynvegan… how about this extra fact for you as to what this blog was REALLY ABOUT! I will apologize in advance if it seems long.. I will admit as I write this I have re-read this like 10 times. For I do not want to cause a stir over this. Just looking to put some random facts out there that could be useful about certain things regarding the PRESENT.. not the past..
Just take a moment.. breath and read this.. I am writing only because it seems that you keep bringing up Lyceum management and how in the past there have been issues. It is pretty sad to see inflammatory comments about a place that in the last few months has worked out many kinks to create a place for many to enjoy. Renovations have been made and many more to come. So please.. for now at least.. give the Lyceum a break regarding its history with past events. You mentioned “I’m simply a person who lives in the neighborhood who has seen shows there, and have heard stories”. You say this, yet you have never replied to the owner’s request as to WHICH events you were here for that left you dumbfounded regarding how the lyceum is MISMANAGED. He is just curious as to which event. Consider this forum right now a SUGESTION BOX. When was the last time you were here and the which event was it? It would be helpful to know if it was it this year or was it 5 years ago? In the past few months MANY shows have occurred at the Lyceum and by the end of the night.. everything was good. A couple of posters have stated that they have been here recently for a few events as and there were no issues. The audience and the organizers have been happy with the final product. So.. as I’ve said.. how about giving it credit for its recent leaps?
As for the trolley and the “vacant lot”?
Trolley belongs to Lyceum… yes..
The lot.. if you even bothered to look at the work permit that was EASILY accessible through the link that Gabby put for ALL to see regarding who is in charge of the building being erected.. It states that JEAN MIELE (aka “Jean G. Miele” architect… not to be confused with his son Jean Miele a photographer) is the proprietor of the vacant lot. His firm Jean Miele AIA are the current “owners” of the lot where the Trolley is at the moment. And yes.. this Jean G. Miele IS the same architect that the owner of the Lyceum is dealing with at the moment in court. There are other issues at hand to be dealt with at the moment. Has anyone here had to deal with this architect in the past?
SO.. basically a few things on the Trolley AGAIN.. it is on a disputed space that Jean Miele AIA is building on.. and for that reason it hasn’t been able to be protected recently from the elements.
Jack.. why don’t YOU call Jean G. Miele or the firm Jean Miele AIA.. their number is right there on the Dept of Building permit and ask THEM why the space was in its current state this whole time. Weeds left and right… garbage.. and just a mess. Ask THEM why THEY didn’t turn the space into a playground or common space for the community of Park Slope? Let THEM know how nice it would be to have another space like the one on 5th and President..
There is always more than meets the eyes. Not everything is always black and white. In the case with the trolley and the lot… there is a HUGE gray area! When all is said and done and justice is done.. the sooner the better I hope.. there will be less fog on this topic.
So Jack… Why don’t you look into a few layers of THIS Onion.. and realize that it’s all fun and games in life.. but certain things… should not be defamed without knowing all the facts… some of which obviously aren’t meant for all to see…
Jack.. Please call The firm, or the “owner” of the lot, and asked them why the space was a dump. Please! ONLY after that feel free to place a post here with some more info on the matter. Do some real research. Don’t be like those New York Times article writers who are afraid of admitting there was a mistake pointed out by a reader. If you want to be a know-it-all.. be one that REALLY is a know-it-all.. not for just posing as one from random facts thrown out there over there years.
Just a friend of the Lyceum who obviously knows a bit more than you… but is open for a real exchange of ideas here.. I am not looking to start fires… Just looking to clear some facts out there that perhaps aren’t being taken into consideration regarding this matter.
For the purpose of this post.. consider me Gio..
hey jack:
as a journalist you wouldn’t get away with unresearched/unsubstantiated snark.
cant let you get away with that here.
you complained about hearing second hand stories of arbitrarily canceled shows. i called you on it and described in detail the shows that got canceled.
as to being anonymous, its all out there for someone to see. just don’t have need of yet another login on a real estate as sport site.
as to my mistaking petty to be what you mentioned(interaction with artists and shows) instead of what you changed it to(your snarky posts). oops. go figure.
eric
FYI, I also am continually amazed at how people are criticizing that ANYONE who comments against the Brooklyn Lyceum somehow wants “luxury condos”. That’s a canard point at best. As someone who grew up in Brooklyn, I can assure you I don’t want to see the Brooklyn Lyceum torn down to make way for another glass tower. Not at all.
But you know there is a middle ground. Like with Atlantic Yards. People want development in that area, just not THAT much development.
So please stop polarizing this into a gentrification argument. It insults us all.
Dear Pseudo-Anonymous Lyceum Manager,
“We have found, as stated earlier, that rockish events are mostly served better by other venues.”
The straw man building doesn’t stop. Why do you keep bringing up this point when nobody said anything about the type of shows and types of bands? Where do you get the idea that somehow the Lyceum would be loved if they were a “rock venue”? Who ever said that?
“Second, the “petty fights” you speak of are the result of acts(save the high school graduation) that refused to follow sound ordinances. And they were acts all about how big a guitar amp they can get into the building.”
Actually if you read what I wrote I was referring to you tendency to get into petty flame-wars on any blog/site that dares to make any comment regarding the Brooklyn Lyceum. I don’t know anything about the conflicts you’re talking about in any way, but your need to confess speaks volumes.
“If that makes someone angry enough to hold a grudge, they can operate their own venue.”
Obviously there are issues you need to deal with (see above) such as your own anger and grudges. Good luck!
“You are(obviously) welcome to patronize whatever venue you like, but understand that a venue that doesn’t speak to you may very well speak to others.”
I think you’re continually mixing up content of a venue and style of the management. I think the content of the venue is admirable. The style of it’s management is confrontational, combative and doesn’t work with it’s immediate community. Thus the comments questioning the venue.
Now please explain to everyone one simple thing: How exactly does a vacant garbage strewn lot and a rotting rat infested SEPTA trolley contribute to the NYC community? And I find it unbelievable that not one person has ever asked anything about the SEPTA trolley in any way.
Jack
I don’t normally post on these blogs but as a recent attendee of an event at the Lyceum I felt I should at least say that the event (breakdancing competition) was very well run both by the organizers and the lyceum management. The building is certainly old and showing it’s age, but that is what gives it it’s character. As someone else stated, I’m glad the current owners have done what they have with it instead of putting up luxury condo’s like most other real estate developers. I actually noticed the old SEPTA car sitting in the adjacent lot and was wondering what it was doing there.
By the way the first event went so well a few weeks ago we had another competition this past weekend that was even better.
A.D.
Jack:
Again, spouting off about which you know little and apparently don’t care to learn.
First of all, no one ever asked about the trolley. Therefore any question of ownership cannot be dubious, your sharp legal mind notwithstanding.
Second, the “petty fights” you speak of are the result of acts(save the high school graduation) that refused to follow sound ordinances. And they were acts all about how big a guitar amp they can get into the building.
If that makes someone angry enough to hold a grudge, they can operate their own venue. Since we have only ever shut down five events, we have a good idea who is complaining to you.
We have found, as stated earlier, that rockish events are mostly served better by other venues. Thus we focus on jazz, opera, comedy, weddings, parties, film screenings, theater, weightlifting classes (crossfitsouthbrooklyn), birthday parties, batting cages, dance, classical music and an occasional rock act.
Obviously we don’t speak to you. You probably missed Fiona Apple, Yo La Tengo, Klezmatics, Wayne Krantz, The WIYOS, MobyDick:the sermon, Amanda Palmer, The Knights Orchestra, the Brooklyn Repertory Opera, Christina Courtin, etc.
None of these were problematic. All went off without a hitch.
Your repeat business zinger is kind of a red herring. The Lyceum is too large a venue to expect that. As a general rule, those who pay to use the Lyceum have good shows, those that don’t less so.
Lastly, the initial brownstoner article asked for a history of how it came to be on 4th avenue. We obliged.
You are(obviously) welcome to patronize whatever venue you like, but understand that a venue that doesn’t speak to you may very well speak to others.