360 Smith: Update and Review of New Plans
No one can accuse the group of Carroll Gardeners protesting the large building that William Stein is trying to build at 360 Smith Street of lacking enthusiasm. Tact and subtlety, maybe, but definitely not enthusiasm. In the wake of the developer being granted permits to erect a fence around the property at the corner of…
No one can accuse the group of Carroll Gardeners protesting the large building that William Stein is trying to build at 360 Smith Street of lacking enthusiasm. Tact and subtlety, maybe, but definitely not enthusiasm. In the wake of the developer being granted permits to erect a fence around the property at the corner of Smith and Second Place last week, the group, which calls itself CORD (Coalition for Respectful Development), called for Bill de Blasio’s head on a stick in a somewhat manic email. Up to that point, de Blasio’s targeting of the project’s architect, Robert Scarano, had jibed nicely with CORD’s agenda of reducing the size and increasing the contextuality of 360 Smith. The issuing of the permits, however, prompted the protesters to accuse de Blasio of being “very disingenuous.” This email followed another in which they urged people to fight the building on behalf of the squirrels who like to hang out in the plaza and the circulation of a petition calling for a moratorium on the construction of any building over the height of 50 feet “until landmarking or a down-zoning is decided.” (The petition had over 800 signatures at last count.) The latest news, via a CORD email last night, is that the revised renderings (which have not been publicly released yet) are still unacceptable:
With or without the trademark Scarano elements the building is clearly massive. On the southern-most corner of the Smith Street side, where the building facade will be “commercial” not residential is a seventy foot tower. This rectangular prism juts vertically into space sure to cast an enormous shadow and act as a light barrier for all the buildings on Smith Street. The rest of the commercial facade is very tall and goes along the Smith street sidewalk with no set back and joins the Hannah Senesh School known for its VERY! eclectic mix and match materials and colored architecture. The new facade in turn, will cast an enormous shadow on Second Street.
It’s hard for us to weigh in on without seeing the new renderings but there’s no reason to think that the description above isn’t right on the money. Can anyone email the renderings to us (anonymity guaranteed)? In the meantime, if there’s anyone in the neighborhood with a background in public relations who opposes the project, you should think about donating your time to CORD. They would benefit from some polish and focus.
Scarano Pushback on Smith [Brownstoner] GMAP
Mixed Agendas at Anti-Scarano Rally on Smith Street [Brownstoner]
Wow! I guess a few squirrels lawfully voicing their dissent have really got your knickers in a twist, Nicolo!
Buddy Scotto is a selective godfather of downzoning. His daughter was one of the developers of the building on Rapeleye and the BQE which looks like it is seven stories or more. Bill D and Buddy couldn’t give a rat’s patoutie about high density development east of Hoyt even though the same architect is currently involved in at least two projects around the canal.
It is all just political lip service. By targeting Scarano (which is a good thing provided it is effective) Bill D. gets to look like a good guy. However, make no mistake – Bill D. is not opposed to large scale development in CG and he will talk up an affordability component to make it more palatable.
Check out who the players are in the IND.
Rocco’s comment shows he has bought into the paranoid fantasys about what “could” be built, about to be built or some evil “developer” could possibly profit from. And, the minor “fact” that there are no three story buildings on that block eludes him as well.
And the politics of 800 “signatures” on an on line petition. Wow, where to begin. Bill D’s constituency is maybe 200,000. And, not for nothing the City must make decisions for 8,000,000. Thats one thing that makes NYC great, that the NIMBYs can’t run the show here like in the suburbs, or at least they couldn’t historically.
And, anonymous 11:41, the downzoning NIMBYs regularly cite the debate on the blogs as a reason to downzone. They say “look at the blogs” and expect you to look at the ones they read. Debate in this case equals echo chamber. The Carroll Gardens Neighborhood Association, the epicenter of NIMBYs and BANANAs in in the are has held about five hours of one sided jihad on downzoning, Bill D has been a big player there with Buddy Scotto, the Godfather of Downzoning.
They are pumping up the NIMBY/BANANA nexus. It is meant to give Bill D cred for his run for Borough Prez after Marty terms out.
Any lower density for a parking lot above a transit stop cheats the rest of New York out of housing and tax base. This is an entirely appropriate density. The abutters bought property price discounted as a function of proximity to the trash strewn open lot. It could have been built upon years ago but wasn’t. Now it is. It is going to be built and the developer is the same man behind the Yeshiva next door, so what I think he is poised to become a stake holder in the neighborhood. Welcome to him.
And housing is housing, “affordable” or not. Each unit fills a demand at a price and frees up another unit at another, usually lower price as people move up.
I’m a Socialist but not opposed to markets. Enough Carroll Gardens Neighborhood Association meetings will make you a Republican pretty quick. I think the Phil Ochs gem is important to remember “I cried when they shot Martin Luther, but that Goddamn Malcolm X got what he deserved, love me, love me, love me, I’m a Liberal”.
Rocco’s comment shows he has bought into the paranoid fantasys about what “could” be built, about to be built or some evil “developer” could possibly profit from. And, the minor “fact” that there are no three story buildings on that block eludes him as well.
And the politics of 800 “signatures” on an on line petition. Wow, where to begin. Bill D’s constituency is maybe 200,000. And, not for nothing the City must make decisions for 8,000,000. Thats one thing that makes NYC great, that the NIMBYs can’t run the show here like in the suburbs, or at least they couldn’t historically.
And, anonymous 11:41, the downzoning NIMBYs regularly cite the debate on the blogs as a reason to downzone. They say “look at the blogs” and expect you to look at the ones they read. Debate in this case equals echo chamber. The Carroll Gardens Neighborhood Association, the epicenter of NIMBYs and BANANAs in in the are has held about five hours of one sided jihad on downzoning, Bill D has been a big player there with Buddy Scotto, the Godfather of Downzoning.
They are pumping up the NIMBY/BANANA nexus. It is meant to give Bill D cred for his run for Borough Prez after Marty terms out.
Any lower density for a parking lot above a transit stop cheats the rest of New York out of housing and tax base. This is an entirely appropriate density. The abutters bought property price discounted as a function of proximity to the trash strewn open lot. It could have been built upon years ago but wasn’t. Now it is. It is going to be built and the developer is the same man behind the Yeshiva next door, so what I think he is poised to become a stake holder in the neighborhood. Welcome to him.
And housing is housing, “affordable” or not. Each unit fills a demand at a price and frees up another unit at another, usually lower price as people move up.
I’m a Socialist but not opposed to markets. Enough Carroll Gardens Neighborhood Association meetings will make you a Republican pretty quick. I think the Phil Ochs gem is important to remember “I cried when they shot Martin Luther, but that Goddamn Malcolm X got what he deserved, love me, love me, love me, I’m a Liberal”.
“We believe that a building this big is wrong for the neighborhood.”
Okay, what the heck is wrong with you people! The building is only 7 stories high and will be standing next to five story brownstones! Why the outrage!!!
This is not a tower! This is a small apartment building! I’m telling you, after meeting Pat Hagan, Dan Goldstein and some of the anti-development crowd over the past four years, there seems to exist one commonality in the bunch: they are all delusional and certified psychos. This building will be only 7 stories tall but no matter how much you present them with the facts, they only see the Empire State Building. They’re nuts!
“anon 12:29, your argument is that since the developer is building to the letter of the law, the residents should shut up, bend over and take it. There is no equation here between lawfully protesting what they feel is a bad law, and discrimination based on race. Laws get changed when sufficiently convincing arguments are made against them.”
Okay. Then change the law but until that happens, then build this MOFO!!
LOL!
Man, so you guys are just protesting and raising hell to change the law? All this time I thought you NIMBYS really had a case with respect to this specific development. Now I get it. You guys are simply begging publicly for the developer to lower the scale and scope of the project by: (a) embarrassing him; (b) humiliating local elected officials; (c) chastising the Dept. of City Planning; and (d) alienating everyone else in the community that reasonably thinks that the project at 7 stories is more than acceptable. Wow! Nice job! Sounds like a winning plan! LOL! 🙂
Nah, not slow at all Dr. Savage – it’s the holidays, and I can barely focus on work myself. This site is always a great way to get the mind off more troubling matters.
Anyway – this is not a legal “loophole”, it’s the law. The purpose of much zoning and the street width definition is to maintain a consistent streetscape (ie, consistent building frontage) in a given area. It really doesn’t have much to do with the actual physical roadway.
Rocky just doesn’t get it. His organization is not asking for a legal loophole to be closed, they are asking for a revision of the zoning code. They are insinuating the original legislatures who enacted the zoning law didn’t understand what “wide street” meant. I mean seriously the zoning code for this district indicates a narrow street is less than 100 feet. Seriously, 100 feet? How can anyone possibly think that refers to the width of the roadway? I bet Atlantic Avenue isn’t even 100 feet from curb to curb.
This entire argument is just nuts. If the zoning code were revised to stipulate the measurements were to apply to the width of the roadway, you wouldn’t be able to achieve the maximum FAR almost ANYWHERE in the entire borough.
For what it is worth, looking at DOB page today on NYC.gov and looks like plans are approved for NB -new building not just fence.(although there is mention of withdraw of doc#5 -whatever that is).
I might guess that besides from DOB that builder would also need some sort of okay from TA also -since above station and they have easement for entrance. But no expert on that stuff.
Also – I don’t see any mention of ‘commercial’ in this building appl. but is mentioned in email quoted above.?? Acutally surprised no 1st floor commercial.
If indeed a ‘loophole’ builder is using – and it is without much precedent in past- IF that is true, then this has to be cleared up, ruled on, clarified – especially for future.
But, in general, I don’t see why this should not be built.
Also – the ‘plaza’ was not public land – private so can build on it – but easement must remain.
All you anti-tall building people in area – start NOW on the Court St building LICH is selling. Don’t wait until final sale and plans are submitted. Not really fair and obviously not effective.
That corner is never shoveled in the winter, a tiny path is barely made to the steps of the subway the “children ” of the neighborhood and the elderly are exposed to hazardous conditions, and in the fall and spring the refuse from the “children” in the neighboring schools , is strewn all over, no one maintains it, but now everyone is concerned…lets say for arguments sake the buiding never gets built (oh it’ll get built), guess what happpens this winter?, same thing…and the locked garden across the street is not accessable to the “community”…not sure what i am trying to say… no one in the community maintained that corner in the past,but now everyones apeshit over it…there, I said it..