No Takers For Red Hook Piece o' Crap
It was with little surprise that we noticed last week that this pair of super fugly houses at 41 and 43 Wolcott Street in Red Hook have not found buyers yet. When will the builders of shlock get a clue. The unfortunate aesthetics may only be part of the difficulty in selling these places. The…
It was with little surprise that we noticed last week that this pair of super fugly houses at 41 and 43 Wolcott Street in Red Hook have not found buyers yet. When will the builders of shlock get a clue. The unfortunate aesthetics may only be part of the difficulty in selling these places. The other? The front-porch views of the Red Hook Houses. GMAP
Heh. Points taken all around.
But I still want a breakdown so we can tell if it’s a ‘true’ stereotype (these ugly shoddy cheap buildings built overwhelmingly by hasidic developers?) or a racist stereotype because everyone has an equal hand in building these fugly monsters and it’s just a projection of our internalized racism.
A quick and half assed ‘survey’ on craigslist, looking specifically at bushwick listings top of page, brought me to four seperate listings of these disasters, all from the same developer. I’ll let you decide if they were Hasidic or not. Or what that means. Or why anyone really cares one way or the other.
I don’t have an obsession with race or ethnicity until a jerk brings it up. And actually no I don’t think anyone would have made a big deal out of it if it were Irish, or Italians or gay developers. But Hasids are a particularly unified group, visually and culturally. People find it easy to pick them out and take potshots.
“why is it that Hasidic developers always put up shit design and housing, even for themselves? Is it always about saving a buck ?
Posted by: Anonymous at September 26, 2006 8:18 PM”
The word Hasid need never have entered into the discussion. In fact, if you note, the first 28 comments never mention the ethnicity of the developer.and the quote above was the first.
If you don’t get it, you never will. But what could I expect from someone who gets upset over a reference to Italians but is ok with comments about Jews. Indeed- physician heal thyself.
“Instead of tomato sauce, what if you had said that Italians were responsible for all of the organized crime in this country? Patently untrue, of course,â€
Rascal, that is what I said, how can you extrapolate that I am blaming Italians for organized crime from that? Seems to me you’ve got the lock on oversensitive here. I only even mentioned Italians because you brought them up in your original post. My point here was only that racial/ethnic profiling of this type, of any race, creed or color, has no place on this blog. I stand by that, and I don’t think we need to run down the 10 most unpopular racial/religious/ethnic groups and list the stereotypes. If you are offended by the words “Italian†and “organized crime†in the same sentence, then you should be equally offended by the words “Hasidic†and “all about the money†and “ugly housing†in the same sentence. ‘Nuff said.
Jennyanne, you rock. Thanks for the defense.
Caroline, I think it boils down to the sad fact that quality workmanship and good design have been pretty much abandoned for the overwhelming greed and indifference of many of today’s builders. When your neighborhood was built, the builder was proud to stand in front of his houses and say “I built this.†Today, in the so-called middle income market niche, because they can’t get the big bucks that luxury housing can command, no one cares, no one takes credit, and certainly no one sticks around long enough to take the blame. The bottom line is the only line, and that is really a sad statement on our national mindset, as well as on the kinds of neighborhoods we are creating. I think it began with the Levittowns of this country, and is now coming back into our cities. The psychological aspect of where and what we live in has not even been mentioned in this discussion, especially by those who make and implement the policies that govern us. Everything really is connected. Ugly and substandard housing really does have larger implications than just an offence to our senses.
jennyanne: The only contributions I would characterize as hysterical are your reactions. My reading of the comments you quote (as well as in their original context) are as being directed at **the people who build these horrendous houses** –not at the entire community from whence they come. I’ll wager that if this housing “style” were a ubiquitous product of any other group–Irish, gay, dwarves, Virginians–WHATEVER–the comments would be exactly the same. That’s the test as to whether it’s racist or not. And it’s not. (and BTW, whether I am Italian or not is utterly beside the point and betrays your obsession with race and ethnicity; I’ll say it again: Physician, heal thyself.)
Wow- talk about hyper sensitive.
Have to disagree with you here, Rascal.
As a Jew I’ve heard that argument too often in a negative context (as in you Jews control everything, you’re cheap, etc.) Moreover,CHP’s comments were really aimed more at the idiotic posts of aster and jbjb, which are offensive. They are not talking about a cultural history of financial prudence, they made some pretty ugly assertions- “They have no interest in quality, architecture, or design beautification. It seems to be all about the money.” and “THESE PEOPLE MUST BE STOPPED!” aster’s rather hysterical contribution.
Am I wrong in assuming you’re Italian? Because for comparative purposes we could delve into a history of anti-semitism vs. anti-Italian sentiment and see who has had the rougher time. But that would be a pointless exercise- everyone suffers from the effects of extremism, racism and prejudice, directly and indirectly.
I also note that you use Jews and Hasids interchangeably. Hasids are but one end of the spectrum and in no way define or characterize the entire religion or culture. I’m sure you would find it offensive if I equated all Christianity with the religious extremists like James Dobson, Jerry Falwell and Pat Roberts (or it is Robertson? What do I know- you see one extremist you’ve seen them all). And it seems to me the consequences of that group of religious extremists is far more destructive of the quality of life than an ugly building. Oh- one last thing. This is Banned Book Week. Guess who banned Harry Potter? (Hint: not us financially prudent folk).
CHP the voice of REASON? Yeah, right. I make an analogy between two relatively inert issues having to do with aesthetics and taste (Hasid housing style and Italian tomato sauce) and CHP comes up with “organized crime” as a more accurate analogy. What could possibly be reasonable about that? Characterizing Jews as having a cultural predispopsition toward financial prudence, however generalist, stereotypical, and offensive that might be to hyper-sensitive types like CHP, is nevertheless NOTHING like characterizing Italians as having some kind of cultural association with organized crime. My God, the hypocrisy. Physician, heal thyself!
The house I live in was spec housing in the early 30’s before the Depression put the kabosh on all building. My block is full of single family Tudors of several different designs and just beautiful semidetached Tudors w community driveways across the street. I believe it was built by teams going from one house to the next a la Levittown style (all my neighbors unrenovated bathrooms have the same color tiles and fixtures for example). The Levitt Bros. just rationalized that approach but I doubt they invented it.
You see, NE Queens really was developed quickly for a large market apparently in the “roaring 20’s”, perhaps not as much as the postwar boom, but they managed to put up these gorgeous bldgs with heavy solid beams hard to come by now(Saw them at my neighbor’s who’s doing a gut renov of her kitchen), presumably also in the attic to support the heavy tile roof, patterned brickwork with stones here and there (cheap Italian immigrant mason labor) and plaster walls (sheetrock not invented yet)–All this presumably expensive except for labor.
And yet…with all the predictable bottom line orientation shared by all businessmen, they managed to put up these lovely houses that have been unmatched since unless you’re willing to spend a bundle. Thank God they did.
Just some observations…
Of course, that said, some people just have horrible design instincts.
Great posts, Carolyn, and your questions are right on the money. I wish there were answers. Part of it might lie in the fact that SI is an island, while Brooklyn has long been easily accessible from Manhattan and Queens (discounting traffic of course). If your dad was right, SI was considered to be open territory and not under close scrutiny. And a bit of contempt for blue collar workers- something we still see today.
Another factor is historical. When brownstones and tudors were being built, the technology and craftsmen were available and these homes were built based on methods going back thousands of years. But once the Industrial revolution really got underway, and mass production became a reality, people looked to how to produce faster and cheaper. But there is an underlying premise to mass production- start up costs are huge, so you need to produce a lot just to get started. So you cut corners, simplfy designs, eliminate fancy details, use cheaper materials. And certainly the baby boom after WW II played right into that.