Cheap New Construction a Deal? Not a Chance
Not to beat a dead horse, but there were several commenters in Friday’s discussion that seemed to feel that the new construction eyesores being slapped up around the borough serve the purpose of providing lower-income people with the benefit of the american dream. Our rebuttal was that these structures actually do the opposite. They are…
Not to beat a dead horse, but there were several commenters in Friday’s discussion that seemed to feel that the new construction eyesores being slapped up around the borough serve the purpose of providing lower-income people with the benefit of the american dream. Our rebuttal was that these structures actually do the opposite. They are almost without exception poorly constructed and almost without exception extremely ugly. We don’t see how these things have a chance of holding their value over time against the traditional housing stock. Take these two comparably priced houses within a few blocks of each other in Bed Stuy, both of which were posted in the last couple of days on Craigslist. Which owner do you think is more likely to have preserved or built equity 20 years from now? Which owner is more likely to get completely wiped out in a downturn? So much for serving the needs of the needy. These developers are taking the money and running from those least able to afford it.
3 Family New Construction [Craigslist] GMAP
4 Family Brownstone [Craigslist] GMAP
I don’t think anyone is saying ‘they should build new brownstones’ or ‘they should only offer housing that working class people can’t afford.
The point seems to be, these buildings are ugly, shoddily built and not only that, are NOT being sold at a ‘low cost’ to provide low income housing.
On my block in Bed Stuy, we have an empty lot with a new construction threw something up and its sat there empty for over 6 months now, no-one is falling over themselves to buy such a poor quality building.
My 2 cents is that buildings on terraced blocks should follow the site line of the block (not be set back), built with a red brick NOT yellow, to better match the browns and reds of the neighborhoods.
Just those 2 things alone would imeasurably help new construction blend in with the neighborhood.
Most of those buildings look like they are built with plans and materials ordered from the internet by people that have never visited the site to see the surrounding environment.
I would very much love to see a movement to set restrictions on these types of buildings to better preserve the character of the neighborhoods.
No, Brownstoner, you’re not beating a dead horse, but you might be riding side-saddle. I would argue that Affordable Housing for Lower Income People is a separate issue from building butt ugly, offensive buildings as part of one’s business model. Now many here, myself included, believe that that business model is flawed and indeed more profit could be gained by developing more aesthetically pleasing buildings. However, it might not be as QUICK AND EASY, given the city’s complete lack of design and aesthetic oversight. Evidently, designing and executing on a well thought-out, eye pleasing, “quality materialed”, beautiful building is beyond the realm of possibility for the caliber of “developer” and “architect” that gained access to these lots.
To their credit they had the guts to actually buy the lots and develop them. Any one of us could’ve purchased these lots and put up well designed buildings and sold them. But we didn’t. Why having the cojones to buy and build seems to be mutually exclusive to having any sort of design conscience, I can’t explain.
Faithful,
It is quite common for new roofs to leak (nothing like field testing)
If you want to ensure no leaks dont ever buy a flat roof.
But past the teething problems a newly constructed roof is better than an old roof any day of the week.
You guys are not very realistic. They will never, ever build brownstones again. Not even if you hold your breath until you turn blue. It simply is not going to happen. Time to move on….
My first home was a “new” construction. Notice I said “was.” I didn’t know squat about homes at the time in 2002 and I thought new, shiny, first owner was good. Five months after buying the house the roof was leaking, the windows were drafty and I could’ve done a better job of putting up sheetrook. As I started really looking at the craftmanship of my “new” home I grew more disappointed. When I looked at it, it looked just like a square box, no character and no details.
I always loved brownstones, but unfortunately at that time the market was really competitive and I was getting out bidded.
As I mentioned before, I’m due to close on a brownstone soon, which will need a lot of work, but I think it will be well worth it.
I understand that it is virtually impossible to build a house that is equal to these brownstone, but these developers use the cheapest materials they can find. I think the developer that built my former home purchased irregular materials because after living there a few months, we noticed that the doors were all uneven and the cheap moldings were pieced together.
David, after you’ve purchased a new construction and have had a good experience, you will not be able to determine how much better these houses are to 100 year old brownstones. At least with brownstones you know that you must do repairs due to their age.
A brand new house’s roof should not leak within a year of being built.
Another thing, these particular developers built a couple of houses under a corporation and once they sold these monstrosities, they would dismantle the corporation and continue to build other houses under another name. Does that sound ethical?
I know that when I owned the “new” construction, I didn’t feel proud to be a homeowner, as many have mentioned that at least you’re owning a house instead of “renting.” Instead, I felt used, robbed and disappointed. If that’s the feeling homeownership brings; I rather rent.
Brownstoner – the reason for the exterior entrances is that internal stairwells/entrances can take upwards of 20% of sq footage – eliminating it would cost developer way more than 10% in terms of lost saleable sq ft.
I’m with you on the meters and iron work but no builder is going to use salvaged anything on new construction – the “shopping time” is just too costly.
Brownstoner,
All your points about the building are valid. The developer could have put more thoughts into the design. The reason he put the stair case on the outside is to minimize loss of usable floor area. Everything about the building is done to minimize costs to the builder. He probably got it done for 100 psf.
Actually you are comparing apples and oranges.
Ill ignore all your conclusiory statements (i.e. flimsy framing, etc…) and look at your issues.
1st of all Plaster walls will not coming back for the poor, for the middle class or the rich so any complaints that new construction doesnt have it is silly.
Yet while for soundproofing plaster is great, it sucks (i.e expensive) to repair or paint (ever try to smooth a really cracked plaster wall? – most contractors will recommend sheetrock to replace) – and thats ignoring the lead paint problem in most brownstones. Plaster also sucks in moist envoroments like a bathroom (cement board just crushes plaster in terms of logevity and reapirability for these uses).
I have heard of tons of leaks with modern construction – and tons of leaks in Brownstones – FACT -flat roofs leak ; but once patched a modern designed roof (w/ proper drainage and engineering) is better than an old one.
As for electrical defects – I really havent heard of too many of the horror stories you cite but unless it has been replaced in the last 30 years, Ill take new electric service over 30+ year old fuses etc retrofitted to 100+ year old house any day of the week, even with a couple of outlets popping.
As for the comments regarding cheap appliances, and lighting – both of those are on a per house basis (Brownstones do not inherently come with good appliaces or lighting; it is often the contrary)
And I would never argue that you can get flooring in modern construction that compares with a brownstone – you cant Brownstone wins everytime, but then again even the absoult cheapest modern window is better (in terms of insulation, and clarity) to any non-replaced brownstone window.
As for your last paragraph – would I rather have a restored Brownstone or modern constructed townhouse – I’d rather have a Brownstone, but many people dont have the time or $ necessary to buy or restore a brownstone and if I heard that an earthquake or hurricane were comming I’d intelligently change my answer. Finally and most importantly they arent ever going to build Brownstones ANYMORE – the point I am trying to make is that just b/c it isnt a brownstones doesnt mean it is shoddy or flimsy.
Starting with the exterior, we’d hide the utility meters, find some salvaged old front doors, and install ironwork that fits in with older neighboring buildings. Personally, we’d also try to find salvaged bricks for the facade, though that would add some expense. And at least spring for aluminum windows. Vinyl looks horrendous, performs worse and won’t last as long. And let’s eliminate all these stairs and porches on the facade while we’re at it (why the fascination with multiple exterior entrances?). As for the interior, some simple oak strip flooring, ceilings at least 9-feet high, solid wood doors (again, preferably salvaged). Pretty basic stuff. We doubt these changes would add more than 10% or so to the cost of the project and you’ll certainly get that back on the sales price.