Albee Square Deal Closes, Fewer Apartments Planned
When the deal was announced back in February, the consortium of investors purchasing the groundlease for the Gallery at Fulton Mall from Thor Equities had big plans: 475,000 square feet of retail space, 125,000 square feet of Class A office space, and 1,000 rental apartments (with 20 percent set aside for tenants of moderate income)….
When the deal was announced back in February, the consortium of investors purchasing the groundlease for the Gallery at Fulton Mall from Thor Equities had big plans: 475,000 square feet of retail space, 125,000 square feet of Class A office space, and 1,000 rental apartments (with 20 percent set aside for tenants of moderate income). Since the deal closed last week for a reported $120 million, it’s come out that the housing component has been scaled back by about 35 percent. The 1.6-million-square-foot tower (which will be anywhere from 40 to 60 stories) will still have 650 apartments, but the switcheroo is expected to result in a loss of about 70 affordable housing units, something that has community groups pissed off. The new owners haven’t announced what they’re going to do with the extra square footage from the 350 axed apartments yet.
Developers Pare Housing Plan for Albee Square [NY Observer] GMAP
Expansion, Skyscraper Planned for Albee Square Mall [Brownstoner]
Albee Square [Acadia Realty]
Sterling Silver –
I’ve lived in Brooklyn for quite some time, so while I work in Manhattan, I made an active decision to never live there.
On Bruno, perhaps they are both viable, one less so than the other considering breadth of offering, size etc. Not trying to drive a business out, just thinking of the rational use of space. By that as it may, i’ll concede the point to you.
The check place serves a purpose, yes, however, there are plenty of business that serve the purpose (banks) and if you want to live on the fringe, then the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic (also downtown) is well stocked with check cashing places. While we’re on the topic, check cashing places, charge more on average to convert a paper check into cash, when a bank does it for free (assuming free checking account banks). In a changing neighborhood, fringe business should be the first to go.
Chase bothers me for the same reason it bothers most people… no more banks in such a small area, we and I’m sure you (apologies for being presumptions here) would like a non-financial option.
I agree that everyone has to come somewhere for things they can’t get in their neighborhood. However, when you have luxury rentals/condos doesn’t it make sense to bring some of that stuff into the neighborhood? Whether its a large chain (pottery barn) or a new mom & pop shop… having things closer means we keep spending those dollars in our neighborhood. Successful stores breeds more successful stores.
My greatest exception is with your Theatre comment. I agree that you have to be in the streets to get home, there’s a difference between being in the streets to get home and being in the streets to be in the streets (I’m referring to the latter).
And yes you’re right on, it is a fear of minority youth – once upon a time i used to be one and I feared the the same minority youth I do now and for good reason.
As for the race/class issue… we’ll save that for another blog on another day
On a final note, before we start using terms, we should agree to common definitions. Rich = multi millionaire. I think a good number of us arguing for gentrification are WELL below that, myself included.
hey sterling..
whats wrong with the desire for the shops by 12:19? so brooklyn is supposed to remain ghetto? “if u dont like it move to hicksville”? glad to see ur finally showing ur true colors
Sterling Silver – except it is the balance of affordable to market rate apartments that often determines the viability of the project like this.
It is easy to say cut the market rate apartments b/c these guys are going to get an overall return of 30% (for example). But think about it as the guy/corporation/REIT betting hundreds of millions on a project where you don’t realize ANY return until years down the line, and market forces can change in the middle potentially resulting in a huge loss. Of course the returns have to be obscenely high, otherwise investors would find a nice portfolio of dividend paying stocks and muni bonds and simply collect a ‘nice’ profit.
Therefore, anything that impacts the potential return of the overall project can forestall the whole thing. I have no idea of the dollars and cents of this deal except that the developers have already spent 120 MILLION on the ground lease. (@ 5% thats approximately $500,000 a MONTH lost in opportunity cost until this thing gets built). And I doubt anyone posting here really knows any specifics so simply saying they “should have” eliminated only market rate housing is easy until you consider that by doing so they MAY have ended up killing the deal and all the affordable units along with it.
Ok, grad school, let’s see:
If both factions of Bruno’s are doing ok, who should say one has to go? Let the market dictate. Both paid for their spaces, both are viable businesses, both have a right to be there. If one goes under than the market has spoken.
The check cashing place obviously does its business during the day when their clients who work in the area need them. Not everyone has a bank account, for many reasons, both good and bad. While you or I may think that a business that takes a hefty percentage of your check is more expensive than an average bank account, many prefer to use its services to cash their checks, send money around the world, and pay their bills. It’s a regulated, legal business, and again, if they have a customer base, they deserve to stay, as far as I’m concerned.
Maybe Chase still has the lease on the space, maybe they can afford to hold on to it until infinity. Why does this bother you so much?
Everyone has to go into Manhattan to get something they can’t get here. You probably came to Bklyn because you can’t afford to stay there. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t expect the world to revolve around your needs. If your wish list revolves around the stores listed by 12:19 above, then you could move to any suburb or place with a decent strip mall.What would be so special about that?
Try to enjoy your life in Brooklyn. Good luck.
As far as the movie theatre goes, that one is much more complicated and gets into race and class and stuff I just don’t have the energy for. Suffice it to say, how are they supposed to get home if they don’t go into the streets? Sounds like a fear of minority youth. I go to that theatre quite often, and have never seen kids doing anything other than being out there, walking to the bus or subway or getting into cars. They do have that right, ya know.
Scott – I think that tax breaks for rental payments is the wrong way to go – b/c it will simply result in market rents going up (albeit tempered somewhat in Rent Stabilized apartments) – just in the way that the mortgage deduction has in the long run increased the sale price of homes.
A tax deduction amounts to an across the board price reduction – generally around 30% and at first people benefit; however over time price increases offset the tax benefit – this is exactly why a tax abatement for a new condo owner is often considered a subsidy for the condo developer (he can charge more then he would have for the tax abated unit).
Let me explain a little further – talking about a market rate rental for a moment – if you have a 1Br apartment renting for $1000 a month and lets say thats within the price range of 80% of the population based on income. If you allowed the rent to be deducted lets say that the effective rent would then be approximately $750 a month (depending on your tax rate) – well at $750 a month the % of people who could afford it might rise to 90% of the population and so you’d have more people chasing this $1000 apartment and the Landlord overtime would raise the rent – and then of course everyone would yell and scream that the tax deduction for rents is a subsidy for Landlords.
If anything we should try to figure out how to eliminate the tax deduction for mortgage interest without totally destroying the economy and everyone who bought with the Government’s promise that interest could be deducted.
David, from my very superficial knowledge of the plan, yeah. In my first comment on this issue, seems like light years ago, my disappointment was in that that the number of units went down, although the percentage stayed the same. I still think that’s wrong as an advocate for affordable housing, as affordable units are more needed than market rate units, and I would have preferred for them to take the numbers completely out of the market rate units. No one, except the accountants and the delveloper, will miss these market rate units with the glut of buildings going up. In terms of the socially responsible thing to do, that would have been the way to go. However……I guess that fight will have to be fought in the next project.
My problem with the New Brooklyn, is not so much with the revitalization of downtown, or all of the other stuff going on all over,(individual issues pertaining to some of the projects aside, for now). It’s with some of the people who are making up the New Brooklyn. I find this attitude that the rich are the only ones who matter, or that one’s station in life, due to perhaps hard work, but also the intangible combination of background, education, age, interests and inclinations, race, and choice of occupation, entitles someone to think that they are better than those who didn’t have those same breaks, to be morally repugnant. I find that people who have no empathy for others or who don’t want to extend a helping hand to those who have been here longer and have made these neighborhoods the stable places they wanted to move to, to be quite scary. Although we may disagree, I have never thought you to be in that camp.
I have to make the donuts, ie work, so this is it for me for a while. I think we’ve exhausted the topic. Nice debating with you.
Hint bx2bklyn: I do live in one of those hoods without a starbucks. Have a great day!
And you most assuredly do not pay in any way shape or form for my housing. So why should I be expected to subsidize your homeowner tax breaks?
And i think you might be surprised at the varied income levels and backgrounds of posters on this board. Nor are you qualified to tell me where I will or will not live since I have lived in neighborhoods that are only now becoming gentrified. Maybe you wouldn’t want to live in them but there are plenty of us out here who can live in places without a Starbucks or a fancy cafe (although I would never turn my nose up at a good bagel/muffin place!). I lived in Boerum Hill when the downtwon theater let you put your feet up on the seats in front so the rats could pass by under your seat and the now-fancy building on my corner was boarded up with watchdogs 24/7 to keep out the drug dealers. So please- don’t embarrass yourself any further by assuming anything about anyone.
I agree with you Scott. I’ve lived in Harlem and have family in Midwood. They are great places. And I do think that everyone should have a voice. We all get to vote don’t we? Where we probably disagree is that I don’t think that the fact that you have rented somewhere for a very long time gives you a special say or privilege above others.