Wednesday Links
McCarren Park Pool. Photo by Bryan Bruchman. Debate Over Building Commissioner’s Qualifications [NY Times] Squeezing Big-Box Retailing Into Small City Spaces [NY Times] NYC’s Quality Of Living Rank Drops [NY Sun] Andrew Cuomo May Run for Mayor [NY Sun] Endangered Mom-and-Pops [AMNY] Bay Ridge Greenmarket Vetoed [Eagle]

McCarren Park Pool. Photo by Bryan Bruchman.
Debate Over Building Commissioner’s Qualifications [NY Times]
Squeezing Big-Box Retailing Into Small City Spaces [NY Times]
NYC’s Quality Of Living Rank Drops [NY Sun]
Andrew Cuomo May Run for Mayor [NY Sun]
Endangered Mom-and-Pops [AMNY]
Bay Ridge Greenmarket Vetoed [Eagle]
Nokilissa- of course that was me. forgot to sign in.
Gov’t fees for faith based services come from taxes. Did you think that money grew on trees? And while there is SUPPOSED to be a regulatory wall, in practice it is quite difficult to separate, especially for religious organizations such as the Salvation Army for instance (whom I have worked for so guess what? I know something about the issue. Many of their federally funded programs provide services based on their belief in G-d. AA even has reference to a Higher Power in its 12 point program. As for gratuitous Bush-Bashing- this is from the white House faith based initiative website: Work of the Initiative:
* Pursuing legislative efforts to extend charitable choice provisions that prevent discrimination against faith-based organizations, protect the religious freedom of beneficiaries, and preserve religious hiring rights of faith-based charities” – in other words protect the rights of a religious group who receives federal funding even if that group practices discrimination. How is that separation of church and State?
And yes religious groups have received federal,state and city funds for years, however they were required to adhere to certain rules to protect the separation of church and State, which Bush has attempted to weaken because he is an evangelical fundamentalist.
“BxGrl also is ignorant of the US Constitution. She claims that it is a violation of the constitution for churches to speak out on public issues.”
In fact that is not what I said. The separation of church and state works both ways, which is why quite a few churches are having their tax status reconsidered because they have engaged in partisan politics-which according to the tax laws they are not allowed to do. Tax exemptions, by the way, are not a right, they are a privilege and as such have granted religious institutions a privileged status which more than a few have seen fit to abuse. Evangelical chaplains and officers try to force students and soldiers into accepting their version of Christianity. the Air force Academy is a prime example.
Churches are often wealthy in property as well and while this Bay Ridge church seems to have forgotten it is privileged, others, like the American Jewish congress donate money to their communities that they do not pay in taxes because they are part of their communities. The “Wall of Separation” is not a one way permeable membrane- if Churches don’t want the government in their business, they should stay out of the business of trying to govern.
so Benson, you see, you haven’t had a conversation with me, nor a debate. You’ve merely engaged in a name-calling hissy fit while throwing out a generalization about the Constitution without context or understanding.
And while you claim to not waste your energy with ignorant people, I’m an optimist. I do waste my time on them because I like to think everyone can learn something from someone else’s opinion. Hope you don’t prove me wrong.
(thank you Nokilissa- what you said made my day!)
Nokilissa and BxGrl;
No, I stopped debating because of the reason I said: complete ignorance on the part of Bxgrl, as such:
Churches do not receive tax money. Their social-services agencies receive fees to implement programs like homeless services, etc., and there is a regulatory wall preventing that money from going into the religious side of the organization. Moreover, ignorant ones, she engages in gratuitous Bush-bashing, implying that he initiated this set-up. The fact is that local and state governments have contracted with faith-based social services WAY before the federal government got into the act. The two biggest social service agencies that NYC contracts with are Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army. Yes, liberal NYC has been giving these agencies money for social services for a long time. But why let the facts get in the way of some gratuitous, ignorant Bush-bashing?
BxGrl also is ignorant of the US Constitution. She claims that it is a violation of the constituition for churches to speak out on public issues. Wrong again, oh ignorant ones! The Constitution only forbids the government from establishing, or lending its weight, to one particular faith or religious institution. It does not state anything about churches speaking out on public issues.
I could go on, but I’ll stop here, as it will fall on deaf ears.
Finally, Nikilissa, you can’t tell the difference between being defeated, and using some discretion. I generally don’t waste my energy on ignorant people who wallow in it.
Benson
Benson you are the ignorant one. I grew up in Bay Ridge in the 70’s and you are old school Bay Ridge. You quoted from the gospel with gems like, “mind your own business”, “If you like that thinking move to China”. It’s such a finite old school Bay Ridge red, white, and blue…black\white way of looking at things. It doesn’t fit the mode, it don’t belong. Usually those simplistic views are from an ignoramus.
This is why I love Bxgrl.
I had decided earlier that engaging in debate with Benson was an effort in futility because he just sort of ‘forgot’ or un-self-consciously left out any points in a counter argument which didn’t fit into his view of the issue at hand or his perception of the person he had taken on (me, now Bxgrl). That and I just didn’t have the energy. He seemed small minded and argumentative in an annoying way.
But Bxgrl flattened him. His only retort could be an angry, “you’re ignorant”, because she debunked every point he had attempted to make. Nicely put bxgrl.
I’m not trying to debate- I’m trying to hold a conversation with you but thanks for that reply. Now I know exactly who you are. and what you are.
Bxgrl;
There is no point is debating you. You are simply ignorant.
Benson
Benson- if the clause in the Constitution (which I can assure you I have read far more times than you and believe in far more than you do)regarding the separation of church and State were still inviolate, this country would be in much better shape than it is. But while Churches may not be subject to taxes- no matter how rich they are- they do get tax money thanks to Bush’s faith-based initiative funding. churches have lobbied and pressured politicians to further their agendas, impinging on others right to decisions about medical treatment, marriage and faith. They are pressuring schools to change their science agendas to include faith- which has no place in a science classroom.all things they are not supposed to be doing by virtue of separation of Church and State.
So if thinking a community church should feel some sense of the “greater good” is an invitation to tyranny, I would say look to the churches for opening that door first.You can’t have it both ways. You should also notice that I did not say it should be demanded- that was your deliberate misreading.The farmer’s market is a public benefit to everyone. They cold have cared a little more about the community, not just themselves.
BxGrl;
I really suggest you read the US Constitution.
Churches do not receive tax “breaks”. We have a clause regarding a separation church and state. Simply put, the taxman is kept away from religious institutions, lest they use this power to “persuade” the churches about the “politically correct” thing to do. Your statements amply demonstrate the wisdom of this clause.
It is the height of folly to state that a church is supposed to demonstrate that it “cares” about the community by supporting a commerical activity, which is what a farmer’s market is ( a “politically correct” commerical activity). It is an invitation to tyranny to suggest that churches follow the politically-corect cause, lest they lose their “tax breaks”. If you like that type of thinking, then move to China,where churches and their activities must be “approved” by the government.
Benson