The End of the Open Thread
This is a tough post to write but it’s a long time coming…Sometime back in 2008, in an attempt to keep the comment threads associated with individual posts on topic, we began running an Open Thread post every day. The theory was that the OT would be a place where people who wanted to discuss…
This is a tough post to write but it’s a long time coming…Sometime back in 2008, in an attempt to keep the comment threads associated with individual posts on topic, we began running an Open Thread post every day. The theory was that the OT would be a place where people who wanted to discuss anything off-topic could go and do just that. It was also an attempt to accommodate the site’s most active commenters who, quite wonderfully, had begun to forge quite meaningful online and offline relationships. As time has gone on though, the Open Thread has become both more insider-y and, often, more toxic than we had initially envisioned. We hear frequently from readers bemoaning the negativity, profanity and clubbiness on the Open Thread and stories of other long-time readers who have all but abandoned the site because of the tone set by the Open Thread. So we’re stopping it.
The decision is made difficult only by the fact that many of the participants, some of whom we’ve come to know personally, are some of the most longstanding and loyal readers of the site. Most of them are wonderful, interesting people but we agree with the critics who say that the Open Thread culture has become at best exclusionary and at worst offensive and inhospitable. There is no reason why a small group of people needs to carry on its discourse on a stage in front of a couple of hundred thousand people every month. There are ample social media platforms that are more appropriate and, frankly, better equipped technologically for this type, and size, of discussion. To that end, we have created an Open Thread page on Facebook that all are welcome to visit.
Going forward there will be no Open Thread on the blog and we will be actively monitoring the other comment threads and forum posts to ensure that they stay (relatively) on topic and respectful. Repeated attempts to highjack any of these discussions will result in users being banned from the site. If you have not already noticed, the new commenting system, while not perfect, does enable readers to flag comments and posts that are inappropriate so please feel free to alert us that way if a thread starts going off-track or a commenter starts acting inappropriately.
We hope that this will be an important step towards cultivating a more welcoming sense of online community that every person who visits the site will feel comfortable partaking in. We hope that we can get back to a time when discussions focused on old houses, neighborhood news and Brooklyn quality of life issues. If you’ve been sitting on the sidelines for a while, we hope you’ll come back into the fold and contribute your two cents.
this thing still on?
I call “LAST”
I’m confused. Is the back-catalog of OTs being erased? Seems like the people who like the OT can continue to use the existing OTs to do whatever it is that they do in there. An easy compromise. Or whatevs. Don’t make no difference no how.
Mr. B., I think this goodbye was much worse than it had to be. But whatever…bye-bye!
I was really done ofr he night but after reading the email jon posted I do want to add a few comments.
1. the OT was never the main point of brownstoner. Anyone who took it to be so, did that on their own. It was always the open thread, and set up so that it could be off topic if posters wanted.
2. Actually it did evolve naturally as those of us who regularly visited the site, got more familiar with each other.
3. “IMO, that was a time when the vibe here was truly about Brooklyn homes and community, people and places. It was warm and folksy and informative and challenging.” And I agree with this. I’ve also been on brownstoner since the earliest days, and there was a lot of nastiness then. More so than now with no registration. But there were also a lot more interesting threads and it used to change every day. The topics were more engaging and about all aspects of brownstone Brooklyn life. Don’t blame the OT for that major change.
4.”The fact that one’s engagement with the OT is totally a matter of choice is irrelevant. Fact is, it’s been damn near impossible to ignore the presence of the OT since some of the most foul posting behaviors of a few OT regulars has increasingly spread beyond the parameters of the OT to the entire site. ”
Actually that being on the OT is a matter of choice is entirely relevant. Out of control posters were here long before the OT, and yes, some of the regulars did and do engage in some pretty nasty posting behavior. But taking away the OT does not change that unless those posters- and one of them has been- banned. Yet posters like omar little still posts and he has not been on the OT.
I think most of the anger directed at the OT has more to do with people feeling they would not be welcomed and yet new people were always welcomed. I know it could come off cliquey and some people forgot there are boundaries and the need for respect, but the OT kept that pretty much off the other threads. Except for a few. Yes. But they were hardly the only posters who were nasty.
I’ve had a number of conversations myself with people who usedto regularly post and the main complaint was the site was too much about real estate buying and selling and less about things they were interested in- like communities and neighborhood issues. Brownstoner used to be filed with them.
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In any case, I understand the decision and it is what it is. But it could have been handled much better especially since we were the people you felt most comfortable with emailing and asking to help evaluate the new site.You told us we were valuable and you always encouraged the community. Of we had no value to you, why did you even bother? But not only did you give us no warning, you made us out to be villains on your site. Sounds a little hypocritical, no?
I’m not crying the OT is gone.It was your decision to make and it’s on your dime, but I am upset at the way you handled it.
FWIW here’s an email that just came in…
I’m not one of those who has previously asked you to scrap the OT. But, I have been on the site since the earliest days of Brownstoner and I write to tell you that I welcome this decision. I can remember when this site was just as the one you posted about in the closing thread today. IMO, that was a time when the vibe here was truly about Brooklyn homes and community, people and places. It was warm and folksy and informative and challenging. And, yes, it was also challenging! Meaning that it wasn’t all “clean and pretty” back then either. Matter of fact, there were several anonymous trolls and a whole lot of abuse of civil discussion parameters. Indeed, there was so much anonymous trollery going on at one point that handles were being hijacked. Then, as now, when you announced that the site would be switching over to member registrations in order to combat the trolls, there was a great public outcry against that decision. Similar with today’s decision, I was among those who cheered the change.
As I recall it, some of the strongest arguments against registration were based on fears that B’stoner would turn into some kind of exclusive “Cheers” kind of place where everyone would know each others names but not everyone would be welcome. I discounted those fears at the time as being over the top. I could not imagine that the imposition of a bit of “structure” would hurt the beloved community. Yet, with the rise of handles, a “Cheers” subset did, indeed, form here. But it didn’t happen naturally. Rather, it emerged under the umbrella of the OT. Regardless of its claims of inclusiveness and welcome mats, the truth is that the OT quickly developed as a clearly distinct “club” within the larger Brownstoner community — one clearly defined by its own chief players, language, and community norms. Further, what started off as a reasonable “law and order” discussion tactic, eventually gave way to a rather “lawless” discussion arena that, IMO, has now really impacted the entire site. The fact that one’s engagement with the OT is totally a matter of choice is irrelevant. Fact is, it’s been damn near impossible to ignore the presence of the OT since some of the most foul posting behaviors of a few OT regulars has increasingly spread beyond the parameters of the OT to the entire site.
As I say this, I have to also say that “some of my best B’stoner friends are OT regulars.” I also know that most OT regulars are perfectly capable of observing the line of posting conduct between OT and non-OT threads (just as most who posted anonymously in the old days did not engage in trollery and handle hijacking.) But, as much as I understand and respect their sense of loss, I still find today’s management decision to be a good and healthy one. After all, Brownstoner.Com is not just a online community for us, and a business for you. Under your entrepreneurship, Brownstowner.Com now represents Brooklyn all over the world! As such, I wholeheartedly support you in continuing openness to change and in your willingness to constantly review and revise and to make course corrections.
Do take heart in knowing (as you likely do) that there are many, many more of us oldtimers, newcomers and lurkers out here who welcome this decision. In fact, I’m betting that those who agree with this change well outnumber the small but very vocal group of repeat posters who are now predicting the fall of Brownstoner (and threatening to depart in order to ensure it). Don’t believe that hype. Instead, based on the countless conversations I’ve had with so many former active members who have since ratcheted down to lurkerdom or just don’t visit here anymore, I’m betting that today’s step –though a tough one –will ultimately prove to be one that is smart. One that, with a variety of other remedial measures which others have noted, have the potential to take B’stoner back to the future. Here’s to the aggressive return of a single and diverse, robust and civil, Brooklyn online community.
Mr. B,
Do you want all the PLUSAs to write you emails?
Obviously you are adding so much to the civility of the Brownstoner website!
Save it- you can hang it in jackal’s new office 🙂