School's Out in Williamsburg
Williamsburg and Greenpoint may be filling up with affluent families lured by the recent condo boom, but the well-heeled new residents are hardly beating a path to local schools. According to an article in this week’s Crain’s (sub. req’d), enrollment is plummeting in the neighborhoods’ public schools–it’s down 12 percent in elementary schools over the…
Williamsburg and Greenpoint may be filling up with affluent families lured by the recent condo boom, but the well-heeled new residents are hardly beating a path to local schools. According to an article in this week’s Crain’s (sub. req’d), enrollment is plummeting in the neighborhoods’ public schools–it’s down 12 percent in elementary schools over the past two years, with middle schools operating at 56 percent capacity, on average. The classrooms are emptying as older residents priced out of the neighborhoods are forced to leave and newer residents put off by what they consider to be conservative education practices decide to send their kids to schools farther afield. The trend is exposing chinks in the armor of the Bloomberg administration’s rezoning of northern Brooklyn, which was supposed to create a community where rich and poor (and their offspring) rubbed shoulders. On top of that, it could spell trouble ahead for developers who are marketing Williamsburg and Greenpoint buildings to young professionals with families. And developers are keenly aware of the areas’ lack of pull on the education front. “We have thought about it,” said Ron Moelis, a principal with L&M Equities, which is developing Schaefer Landing. “I don’t have an answer for you. There’s talk of a charter school, a new magnet school or maybe even a new private school. It would be great if that occurs.”
Photo by specmotors.
I know a family who lie about their address to get their 3 children into PS 321. And worse, these are people who could afford private schools.
This just illustrates the ethics of the narcissistic my-child-first parents today. My parents would never have tried to pull something like that. They’d have looked down on it. If they wanted a certain school district they moved us there.
Wow, thanks alot Erik. I was the parent that was being assualted for not having the right information on how schools were funded. I feel so vindicated now. Also, being a parent who tried and wanted to keep my kid in the neighborhood but was not thrilled about the quality of education my son was receiving I feel I am not talking out my a$$ in dismissing the local school. I think everyone should check out their local school at least for one year Some people decide to stay and some don’t.
Hi folks. Erik Engquist here. I wrote the story in Crain’s. I’m gratified — and also a little taken aback — that it sparked such an intense thread on this blog. The vitriol is not unexpected, but startling nonetheless. I want to say it’s counterproductive, but on the other hand it might help to air out the dirty laundry a bit. So, thank you to everyone who commented.
I only had 25 column inches to work with, so I couldn’t possibly get into the kind of detail that some posters above are seeking. Second, I do not have first-hand knowledge of the inner workings of District 14; what I did was report the perspective of some parents. I can elaborate a bit here on what they said, but I won’t pretend that I have all the answers or know exactly what has happened, and is happening, in District 14 schools.
So with that disclaimer, I will try to summarize the issue. First, schools are complex organisms. There’s no simple scale that says on a scale of 1 to 10, P.S. XX is a “9” and P.S. YY is a “5.” Two sets of parents who value education highly can have opposite opinions about the same school. One family may want a highly structured environment where every student in a classroom is sitting quietly and facing the teacher, and the kids are all doing the same work, like test prep or penmanship drills. Another family may want the kids separated into small groups, sitting in circles and working at their own pace, and to have parents invited into classrooms on a regular basis. The first family may want kids to sit quietly at lunch and focus on eating. The second family may want a more casual, social atmosphere where kids can let loose a bit — at the very least during lunch period. Call it progressive education or whatever you want, but it definitely places less emphasis on conduct and drilling and homework. It is not surprising that parents in this latter camp are not sending their kids to schools that do not approach education in that way. Does that make them snobs? Not any more than it makes parents in the 3-Rs camp Neanderthals.
A separate issue is school quality, as opposed to style. I lacked the time, space, and information to address that in my story. But I can assure you that some parents are more disenchanted with the quality of their local school than with the progressiveness of the school’s approach to education.
A group of dedicated parents can change the direction of a school, but only if the school leadership goes along. If the parents’ ideas are rejected at every turn — and indeed there is open hostility, as there was at P.S. 84 last year — they are going to pack up their toys and go home.
Finally, two notes on specific comments above:
1. As a previous poster noted, city schools are funded by a whole lot of different revenue streams, not just property taxes.
2. Schools’ student capacities are not determined based on the total square footage of the building. A school that is 100% full does NOT have children taking classes in the cafeteria, auditorium, and gymnasium. It means that every potential classroom seat is filled.
1:15 – property taxes fund schools in the suburbs. In the city, schools are funded through all taxes. The post was referring the comment that suburbs pay higher taxes – they pay higher property taxes, but not necessarily higher taxes overall.
As for this thread – this is pretty incredible, the passion on both sides. I applaud Kate for wanting to stay in the system and improve things. That’s the best way to improve schools for the entire community. Having a choice of quality schools – both traditional and progressive – benefits everyone.
As for the parents who don’t want to “experiment” with their kids, who can argue that? Yes, it would be better for the community as a whole, but that is in the long run, and your kid’s education is a pretty short run proposition.
Given the huge number of pre-school aged kids in the neighborhood, hopefully this will work out in the coming years.
The one thing that really bothers me is the parents who lie and cheat to get their kids into non-zoned schools. Crains alluded to it, but it is a big problem for 132 – generally considered the most progressive school in the nabe. I know four or five families who send their kids there, and only one is zoned for the school. The rest should be at 84 or 17, but their parents lie and submit false addresses. This is way different than sending your kid to a choice school, going through a lottery, etc. Here, you are a) making an overcrowded school uneccessarily more overcrowded, and b) taking your kid away from schools (84 and 17) that could benefit from the involvement of parents who care (obviously you care enough to lie for the benefit of your kids).
And as for 84, I still haven’t seen a rational explanation of “what happened” – and I’m close enough to the situation to know that it was a big mess. Those folks asking for more information are still in the dark.
williamsburg is a community rich in tradition and history and an influx of artists can only help beautify the area…true the pool is closed and there have been alot of factories are turning into apartments and some of the best restaurants are in the neighbrohood…ie DuMont…Bamontes etc. also the tradition of having a feast which has been around for over 100 years…not many neighborhoods can say that…
In reference to the article that Kate posted. The sidebar is interesting. Before that school in Bed Sty was put in, children in our district could apply to any gifted program like the one at PS 116 (not just the ones that are self contained citywide)because our district didn’t have one. When they put that gifted program in at the Bed Sty school, that changed the policy and kids in our district were only allowed to apply to that gifted program (along with the citywide contained schools like Anderson and Nest). Now that this program has been eliminated things are back to the way they were before so parents in district 14 who are interested going to school outside the district can apply to gifted programs in any other district. Thats just one vehicle you can use to get your kids in a public school (without faking an address) outside of the choices currently available in our district.
“live in a beautiful building on a lovely street with terrific restaurants and bars and shopping down the road ”
you did not describe 95% of williamsburg. you just described park slope.
the TRACK is your other example???
McCarren Park is the Quad at Ohio State.
11:13 A “mess” and “gross” Based on what? who asked you. live in a beautiful building on a lovely street with terrific restaurants and bars and shopping down the road from the re-done track and ther soccer field in McCarren. Don’t know what you are referring to, but keep your negativity to yourself….
Now you are taking that statement out of context. The poster responded to 8:08 pm saying, “new york gives us all so much every day. i’m so curious to know how many of us give back even 1% as much as it’s given to us.”
All working people give back to the community in the form of city, state and federal income taxes which in NYC are some of the highest in the country. Thats all. Don’t try to twist it. The comment wasn’t specific to schools.