New Middle School Coming to Fort Greene
According to The Local, Fort Greene will get a new 300-seat middle school starting in the Fall of 2010. The Fort Greene Preparatory Academy, as it will be called, will be located at 100 Clermont Avenue where PS 46 currently is. The academics will be structured around Socratic seminars and the arts. The goal of…
According to The Local, Fort Greene will get a new 300-seat middle school starting in the Fall of 2010. The Fort Greene Preparatory Academy, as it will be called, will be located at 100 Clermont Avenue where PS 46 currently is. The academics will be structured around Socratic seminars and the arts. The goal of the school is to be driven by student inquiry, said Paula Lettiere, the intended principal. We’re seeking to move away from traditional curriculum. This sounds like a pretty conscious effort to provide an alternative to the PS 20 approach that has turned off so many of the families that have moved to the neighborhood in recent years.
New Middle School Coming in 2010 [Local/NYT]
Photo by silk cut
I totally agree that theory vs. implementation of a good idea is never easy. However, (as I said) the current system tends to push the non-college kids into the pre-institutionalizing ‘special ed’ system. I know 4-5 people who work for DOE (some in in special ed), and they all tend to agree with my return to trade school theory is a better option. Is that scientific proof – no, but it is a good start.
The two system stigma still exists, but now its called special ed instead of trade school (or shop). Is that really progress? From what I have been told (from the aforementioned teachers), (disciplinary) special ed is mostly temporary a way point before these kids end up in jail, and each day the most of teacher’s job is to play cop and prevent the kids from fighting. Again, not scientific or systematic proof of anything, but this is how theories are formed.
Teachers are forced to teach to the ‘back of the class’ which holds back the ones who might excel. Funny thing is that this issue was upside down in the extremely progressive private school I went to in the 70s where the trust fund kids disrupted class, while the less affluent students worked overtime to make the most of the opportunity.
So based on my personal experience and observation my opinion is that the ‘one size fits all’ education system is a failure. Everyone deserves an opportunity to try to make it to the top, but if you can’t, then why hold back the ones who want to try harder? Capitalism does not work if everyone gets to be a doctor or lawyer. Someone has to fix things when they breaks and someone else has to work the cash register, etc.
Do we really want to bring down the education level of entire country just to avoid a sensitive race/class issue? You still teach basic math in auto shop school, just not pre-calculus, etc.
The hard part is finding a less arbitrary way to ‘sort out’ the kids. I think there would need to be some time of ‘in-between’ school for the ones with low test results, but high motivation. If they want to try – then let them try. The ones who can make it out of the (hypothetical) middle group might be the greatest success stories – since they were able to make it on their own merit and sweat. I believe that is also called ‘The American Way’.
ProfRobert, of course when you tutor students the Socratic method works. There’s one student, or maybe a few! Would it work with 34 kids in a class?
“Then you have the parents of poorer kids, often minorities, who see trade schools as a plot to keep them down while the white and well off kids take the college track. Could you argue with them? ”
Yep, I’m white, as is my brother. I have a PhD and JD, he is a car mechanic, went to automotive school. Different people, even with much the same genetic backgrounds, flourish in different environments as everyome has been saying. Don’t you lot get tired of dragging race into everything?
I don’t know what the educators are planning for their Socratic seminars, but if they mean teaching Socratically — that is, by asking questions that lead the students to find their own conclusions — middle school is certainly not too young. I tutor elementary and middle school students, and I take the same approach with them as I do my law students (at a different level of sophistication, of course). I ask them questions to get them thinking about a problem and how to solve it for themselves.
Dock Street Fracas? That sounds interesting… I’ll have to Bing that 🙂
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If we taught those kids to fix HVAC systems, auto repair, retail management, simple book keeping, home finance and even basic computer maintenance, my theory is that they would tend to try harder since there is something ‘in it’ for them.
I could be wrong – I’m not an expert. It still seems logical to me.
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Knickerbocker, you are way too logical. Refrigeration and auto repair is what they push parolees into. Seriously. Go hang out in front of Abex on 6th Ave and 16th Street in Chelsea. And you forgot truck driving 🙂
There were a lot more trade schools when I was a kid. I recall there was a marine-oriented school that came to do a presentation in my JHS, and it sounded great. My parents shut that down right away.
Anyway you have two sets of people working against you. The first is the middle and upper classes who want their kids to go to college and become knowledge workers. They ain’t gonna send their kids to no stinking trade school!
Then you have the parents of poorer kids, often minorities, who see trade schools as a plot to keep them down while the white and well off kids take the college track. Could you argue with them?
You could really do a race and class war on the subject of trade schools. Do you want to tell your friends that your kid works at the Asshat Hedge Fund, or the Asshat FlatFix shop?
Then there’s the question of the quality of public trade schools were they to exist. Arguably, it’s harder to teach auto mechanics well than ‘teaching to the test’.
There’s only one country in the world that does it well, that’s Germany. They’ve managed to make trade schools a desirable and respectable place to be. That’s why they make the best damn products in the world, are still the largest exporter in the world, yet still maintain a standard of living higher than ours (higher avg salary).
That’s because they see manufacturing as a respectable profession, and here it’s just effin sh*t. I don’t know how long our country can keep going this way, frankly.
I’m a PS 8 parent, heard the presentation from the new middle school, and think it’s the best good news we’ve had about middle school since, well, ever. The principal still has a ways to go with articulating her vision, but at least so far, she’s on the right track. At the presentation, we heard about solid, rigorous, and, yes, fairly traditional academics. Among the points mentioned were extra classes devoted to laboratory science, math that’s geared for kids who are able to handle more than the–incredibly undemanding–city curriculum, Spanish, and Latin. Oh, and they say class size will be smaller than the city norm. They also say the curriculum will be rigorous, definitely aimed to prepare those kids who can handle it for the specialized high schools.
I think MS 113 is doing solid work, but it’s not the right school for my kid. Ditto Arts and Letters. Honestly, it’s either this new school or the citywide G&T or we move out of district. Those are the only choices.
My child has been at PS 8 for a few years now, and I have never seen any discrimination against children of any skin color or class. Yes, the educational model is somewhat progressive, which is one of the reasons we chose it rather than PS 20, for which we’re zoned. Test scores have risen steadily; this year, one in 3 third graders scored at the highest level for the ELA exam. It’s a terrific school, not perfect, but improving steadily. The newer teachers are mostly wonderful, and the school community of families is great.
Knickerbocker, I’m old enough to remember trade schools. I was educated in public school way upstate where trade school meant automotive repair, farm equipment and agro tech stuff, and secretarial skills. The kids who went to this special school called BOCES,(I forget what the acronym means)were bussed there in the morning from the main school. There was some social stigma attached, but since most of the kids who went there were the popular kids anyway, they weren’t too marginalized as “dumb”. Economically, they covered the gamut, and race really wasn’t an issue as the area was 95% white.
Theoretically speaking, I have no problem with vocational schools. Not everyone has the potential or wants to be a rocket scientist. Being trained in a valuable skill like computer tech is a smart move for anyone. The problem with the whole idea, and probably a major reason for it being scrapped, is that minority kids were being steered there, both passively and actively, just as they are now steered into special ed far too often.
My Dad, who is the product of the NYC school system back in the pre-war days, (the 30’s) remembers that teachers would look at you and send you to wherever they thought you belonged. Lo and behold, black girls ended up learning housekeeping skills, or better, secretarial skills, and black boys ended up in labor intensive skills or building maintainence. He fought hard to be in a college track, and succeeded, partly through smarts and hard work, and admittedly, also because he looked racially ambiguous.
Long story short, if a kid wants to go to trade school, he/she should be able to. We should not be like some totalitarian or caste based systems that force you to be what you are not.
Please don’t characterize PS 8 parents unless you know them and are one of them. Of course we want all the kids to do well — there are our children’s classmates AND friends. If you are using the Dock Street fracas as a basis for your insults, you are responding to the Walentas’ lobbying campaign and not to reality. The school succeeds when the children succeed.
I was at the Fort Greene Prep presentation and had some reservations, but have a few years before I must make a decision. Many parents were quite interested. To those who would characterize PS 8 parents — were you at the presentation? What is your knowledge of PS 8, or the new middle school under discussion?
My daughter’s class last year was over 50% minority children — this is her 5th year at the school and we aren’t changing schools until she graduates from 5th grade. Somehow I think parents and students must care about more than 50% of our community. I can speak only a little for all PS 8 parents, and certainly can’t speak for all the white Brooklyn Heights Parents, or for all the parents of other races at PS 8 or elsewhere…
And Seth is a Brooklyn Friends School alum, not St. Ann’s.
why does everyone have some a bug up their butt about structure? we’re not talking about a military school, folks.but solid 3 r’s(which goodness knows students need) calling teachers by mr/ms. (i’m sorry but as crazy socialist as i am- developing respect or at least be aware that somebody is in charge isnt a bad thing. everyone seems to forget that much of what is being taught is dictated by no child and city wide rules- hello joel klein. obviously diff strokes for diff folks. 113 has become a very solid school with a strong emphasis on the arts..oh right. it’s mainly black and hispanic and also title 1. is that possibly a problem ? over the years it feels as though traditional/structure is often an un intentioned code word for race/class; you know because those kids need so much more discipline..i could be wrong but that’s often how it comes off. it will be interesting to see what all of the parents who wanted principal keaton out will do with little olive and harry if indeed he was the issue. LOL
side bar. my son and 2 of his friends transfered out of ps 20 in the 90’s when the school had a solid staff. the reason , at least in my case, for the transfer had little to do with 20. the kids all ended up at an alternative school in district 2. both of my son’s teachers told me that without an question all of the students who’d come from 20 had a stronger grapse of math, english, etc than the kids who’d gone to the more trendy,”looser” district 2 schools. they were also more socialized . again diff strokes but structure and traditional can be a good thing.