It's Tough Out There for a Middle-Class New Yorker
Income levels that would enable a very comfortable lifestyle in other locales barely suffice to provide the basics in New York City, says the the Center for an Urban Future in a new report that merely provides data to back up what all city residents already new. The group estimates that the same quality of…
Income levels that would enable a very comfortable lifestyle in other locales barely suffice to provide the basics in New York City, says the the Center for an Urban Future in a new report that merely provides data to back up what all city residents already new. The group estimates that the same quality of life that costs $50,000 a year in Houston will run you $123,322 in the Big Apple; San Francisco is a distant second at $95,489 with LA at $80,583 and Philadelphia at $69,196. In addition, many New Yorkers put up with commutes that double the national average of 25 minutes. One Brooklyn Bridge Park even gets an unnamed reference: “If it wasn’t already clear that the cost of living in New York City is greatly out-of-whack with the rest of the country, it certainly became apparent in early 2008 when a new condo development in Brooklyn Heights began selling individual parking spaces—not apartments, parking spaces—for as much as $280,000.” So it’s no surprise that the report finds that many people have been giving up on New York. In fact, twice as many people with bachelor’s degrees left New York in 2005-2006 than in the prior two-year period. So what’s to do: Among other recommendations, the report suggests diversifying the economy, focus on basic infrastructure and quality of life issues rather than building flashy new projects and increase housing stock that is affordable to the middle class.
Dittoburg: I teach in a public high school where well over 50% of the students are immigrants or children of immigrants. I hardly think I need to get out more.
bxgrl: No, travel in and of itself does not make one less provincial, but refusal to travel, or at least refusal to travel out of one’s comfort zone, is evidence of being provincial. My “interpretation” is based on my ten years of experience living in this city. I’m not sure what other reality I’m supposed to base my opinion of New Yorkers (and yes, by now I include myself in that category).
My other points have been made by benson and bk14, so I rest my case.
Folks;
I’ll jump into this discussion, late in the game.
I’m a native New Yorker, and except for 2 years in grad school, it’s always been home to me, in the way that Bxgrl expressed way up on this thread. It’s where my memories, family and friends are.
Having said that, I can’t believe what CMU is saying above about only associating with people and places which are of like mind and values. This is the very definition of insularity.
In my work, I have to travel often to “Middle America”. I find alot of good people there. These are the people who grow our food and who work in our factories. I enjoy going there, and seeing a different slice of life. When I have discussions with them, I often hear things from a different POV, and it makes me re-examine my assumptions. You cannot grow unless you do so.
NYC is a great place, and there is certainly a wide spectrum of folks here. However, it is not a world unto itself. Again, how many farmers do you meet in NYC? How many NY’ers make a career out of the military? Indeed, to turn a trite caricature on its head, how many folks do you meet who live in a trailer park?
There’s a big world out there. Embrace it, which is the point Sixyearsandcounting was making.
Bxgirl et al: yes, you can love NYC with the all the passion you want. But that’s not what is going on in this thread, or in the other one on Miami. This isn’t about pride of place–give me a break. It’s about needing to justify your life by putting others down.
Commenters are downright insulting other populations, cities, states, WHILE positing NYC and New Yorkers as superior and cultured. It’s really pretty pathetic. It’s indicative of a small, unsophisticated mind. And of immaturity. I think that (maybe) I had a bit of this attitude when I was 17 years old, for about a year at most. Then I grew up and realized there’s a whole big world out there. If the 40% statistic is true, then most of you commenters are not even originally from NYC. You need to get a life. Insecurity reigns supreme on this and similar threads. 11217 continues to lead in this respect. I just hope that the opinions expressed on some of these posts are not representative of the real world.
Yeah, good point, cmu. SF = Manhattan and the other boroughs don’t exist. Oakland = New Jersey or Westchester or something like that. She doesn’t want to move out of the city either. I will tell her about your analogy.
Personally I don’t think travel makes you more or less “provincial.” that’s a mindset and I have met plenty of well-traveled people who would make the guys in Deliverance look sophisticated and open-minded.
60andcounting- you came here with the same attitude I saw in the thousands of people who came to NYC after 9-11. They all had that same, tired, New Yorkers are hard, elitist, rude, obnoxious and think only NYC is important. And 90% of them went home with a whole new outlook. I heard people say such things as “All New York women are whores.” And that they were afraid to leave the hotel unless they went in a pack. And when they went home, I heard them say how they thought NYC was wonderful- how everyone bent over backwards to to nice, how people got off trains to show them the UN, or took them all out to dinner, or invited them home.
You need to put all your old, outmoded ideas of what you think New Yorkers are, aside and learn something about us. And if we think NY is the greatest city in the world- I supposed you never heard a Frenchman say Paris was, or a Londoner claim London is. We love it with all the passion of a school rooting for its home team- it takes a truly great city to inspire that kind of passion. You are writing scenarios about NYC and its people that we don’t live. It’s your interpretation- not the reality. So before you accuse us of being elitist, obsessed with style and provincial, you need to take a long look in the mirror at your own urban insecurity.
rob- I’ve been through most of the eastern Hemisphere but haven’t yet had the time or money to travel further. Most of my family are great world travelers and someday I would like to be also. You’ll do it when you can.
buckfast,,,i hope you meant to type $300-400k and not $30-40 k or you are talking out of your ass. There’s no urban location in the country where you can get something for $30-40k.
mopar, not sure. Iit’s not a fair to compare Queens to SF city proper. SF is too small, more like Manhattan (or maybe even Manhattan below say 140th)
I’m sure, however, that she could find such a place in Oakland, a reasonable commute from SF and in many ways the equivalent. Or Burlingame or South SF though I would not wish those places on any friend.
I guess I’d agree that it’s easier to find 200k places a little further from Manhattan and still have a good quality of life than from SF (unless you like the suburban environments surrounding SF).
sixyearsandcounting – you seem to hang with an atypical bunch of New Yorkers. 40% (I am shouting that number) of New Yorkers weren’t even born in the USA. Perhaps you need to visit some more of New York City.
Wine lover: I am not using “Middle America” as a putdown – although maybe you’re not referring to me. My 94-year-old grandmother has lived in Bismarck, ND (one of the cities cmu doesn’t feel (s)he needs to visit) for over 60 years. I’ve spent twenty summers in Minnesota, one of my favorite states. Obviously, travel is in part a function of money and leisure, and I am lucky to have a bit of both, as an unmarried teacher with no student loans to pay off. That said, many of my students’ families fly to Bangladesh, Poland, and other far-off locales with some frequency. Like most other things in life, travel is also a matter of *priority* – if you save, and are willing to accept non-luxury accommodations, you’re probably able to travel if you have the time and the energy to plan ahead!
cmu: If you’re only willing to spend time and money traveling to places you’re already comfortable in, how is that in any way fulfilling? How is that educational? What do you learn by spending time among people who are similar to you? Are you challenged in any way at all? Do you ever question the assumptions you have about life? NO. That is the very definition of being provincial.
Btw, I am not an admirer of Palin, not in the least! I voted for Obama, for a variety of reasons, chief among them that I have quite a bit of experience traveling in the Middle East. But *you* stated “I remember reading it when it was discovered that Sarah Palin had never been out of the country before.” I’m merely correcting your provincial misinformation.
Rob: save up some money, if you can, and get on a plane and go! Backpack through the more affordable parts of Europe, Southeast Asia, or the Middle East – you’d love it.